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Eternal security question


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Recently I was reading a post in the salvation forum and came across this question concerning eternal security, "is God an indian giver"? As I have thought on this for a while it has brought other questions to my mind. BTW I am OSAS in my theology.

Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 6:23 and 1 John 5:11-12 all state that eternal life is a gift from God.

Here are my questions, If we could give back God's gift to us back how would we do it? Since the gift is received through faith and that faith itself is a gift of God how would this be accomplished? Seeing eternal life is not tangible because it is procured by faith what exactly would be given back?

Your thoughts on these questions

orvals

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I have some friends who would be best classified Weslean Arminian. They believe in the necessity of a clear born again experience, but they see the passages in the N.T. that say "believeth" as to mean those who continue believing. I know all the arguements, but that is how they view it. They don't believe one can lose it, but they believe one can stop placing their faith in the work of Christ and forfiet their salvation. This is not a saved one day lost the next and then saved again experience for they see those who apostasize from the faith as never returning to Christ again for it is impossible to crucifiy him again. The only sign one did not go "too far" is the fact that they would turn again in humble repentance.

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"Believeth" is present tense, which means continually believe. A true Christian will continually believe in Jesus Christ as his Saviour. It does not mean he won't have any doubts about anything, but a true believer who truly trusted Christ alone for salvation at one point is not going to later reject Christ and believe He is not the Saviour or not capable of saving.

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Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, Absolutely
I say unto you Jesus says to everyone
He that heareth my word, Whoever hears the word of God
and believeth on him that sent me, And believes
hath everlasting life, Suppose you only believed for one minute, or only one second?
Doesn't matter if it was only one second, "hath" means you have everlasting life...right now.
and shall not come into condemnation; And you only believed that one second? Says you shall not come into condemnation.....AND
but is passed from death unto life. You are passed from death unto life

So even if you believed and then stopped believeing, if that were possible, "hath" is still present tense
And "shall not" means "shall not"....

AND....if God gives you everlasting life...and He takes it away, or you lose it...it wasn' "everlasting" to start with.

I heard the word
I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ
I have everlasting life
I shall not be condemned...ever
I have passed from death to life

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Hm, you are missing something:

Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It is the person who heareth (present tense) and believeth (present tense - ie. ongoing, continual belief) that hath (present tense, continual) everlasting life. This promise is for true believers - and they WILL continue to believe. Someone who only believed for a second was not a true believer and has no part in this promise of God.

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Hm, you are missing something:

Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It is the person who heareth (present tense) and believeth (present tense - ie. ongoing, continual belief) that hath (present tense, continual) everlasting life. This promise is for true believers - and they WILL continue to believe. Someone who only believed for a second was not a true believer and has no part in this promise of God.



Maybe you misunderstood me....

Suppose you only believed for one minute, or only one second?
Doesn't matter if it was only one second, "hath" means you have everlasting life...right now.


OK, I do believe, present tense, but suppose tomorrow, I doubted my salvation? Have you ever done that?
That is unbelief brotherman. Does that change my position in Christ? I don't think so.

2Ti 2:11 [it is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
2Ti 2:14 ¶ Of these things put [them] in remembrance, charging [them] before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, [but] to the subverting of the hearers.

1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1Jo 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God.


When you are saved, brother, the Bible says you pass from death unto life......the Holy Ghost comes into your heart the instant you get saved. You are sealed with the Holy Ghost. You cannot be lost....ever.

Of course, if you are really saved, you are a believer, but the Bible says you can forget that you were purged form your old sins....you can iive in unbelief...this is Biblical. But God is STILL faithful.

I'm not holding on to Jesus...He's holding on to me.
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Here are my questions, If we could give back God's gift to us back how would we do it? Since the gift is received through faith and that faith itself is a gift of God how would this be accomplished? Seeing eternal life is not tangible because it is procured by faith what exactly would be given back?


That is strictly conjecture. It doesnt coincide with what the overall scripture teaches.
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Once we are truly saved (believe, confess and repent) we are sealed. It isn't simple belief (as the devil does and trembles). Salvation is through faith that comes from hearing. It all is a gift from God. John 6:27


Absolutely
Faith only comes by hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ....the Word of God.
"....Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

We are saved by grace through faith....
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Here are my questions, If we could give back God's gift to us back how would we do it? Since the gift is received through faith and that faith itself is a gift of God how would this be accomplished? Seeing eternal life is not tangible because it is procured by faith what exactly would be given back?


Eternal life is as real and tangible as God is.


Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

God says if you are His sheep.... He gives you eternal life....and says you will NEVER perish.
Sounds like a done deal to me. :thumb
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Use John 10:27,28 to prove the doctrine of Eternal Security to NOSAS proponents, and they'll just tell you that a believer can "chose" to walk away from God by their own free will. In other words the believer can choose to pluck him/herself out of God's hand. :roll

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