Members lettheredeemedsayso Posted September 1, 2007 Members Share Posted September 1, 2007 Bro Jerry, how do you explain to someone it is not what we do but what Jesus Christ has done that merits salvation? So many religions believe that you have to partake in water baptism and recieve the sacraments and so many other rituals. If people could only realize they are trying in the flesh to accomplish something they are unable to do. This is not criticism but a cry from a heart that has been there. Even after we are saved we rely on His strength and not ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted September 3, 2007 Members Share Posted September 3, 2007 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matt. 24:13 (KJV) "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." - Romans 11:22 (KJV) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matt. 7:21 (KJV) "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Cor. 9:27 (KJV) "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." - Phil. 2:12 (KJV) "They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." - Luke 8:13 (KJV) 1) I don't understand how Matt. 24:13 has anything to do with losing one's salvation. That verse reads, ""But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." The context is obviously about the end times and the coming tribulation. Those who do not endure in those times are those who will receive the mark of the beast. They were never saved in the first place. You can't lose what you never had. 2) "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." - Romans 11:22 (KJV) I can give you the scripural proof that it represents Israel. The point is that the olive tree represents the dispensational blessings of Israel and that when one is cut off they are cut off from those blessings, not salvation, per se. You must understand that there are literally dozens of times in the OT which speak of one being cut off from Israel, but they are not killed, and they do not lose their salvation, assuming that they were saved. They are simply cut off from their People, Israel so they are not eligible for the dispensational blessings promised to a faithful Israel. In short, being cut off form the good olive tree does not mean the loss of salvation, it means being cut off form Israel in which there is the promise of dispensational blessings. 3) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matt. 7:21 (KJV) Again, I don't see how this implies losing salvation. It seems to me the point is that not everyone who claims to see Christ as Lord actually does see Him as their Lord. It is only those who do the will of the Father who are really Christ's and He theirs. The previous verse proves that is was is meant, "By their fruits ye shall know them". In v.23, Jesus says unto them "...I never knew you," i.e., they were never saved. 4) "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Cor. 9:27 (KJV) The context has to winning the prize, not salvation. Therefore, Paul is saying in verse 27 that he doesn't want to be cast away when being considered for the prize. 5) "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." - Phil. 2:12 (KJV) We read in Rom. 2:13, "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified". This says that one is saved by doing the law. And yet in Rom. 3:21 Paul wrote, "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested......". This says that one is saved apart from the law. Obviously this is not a contadiction and Paul was not wrong in either case. What we must see is two sides of a truth that make a perfect whole. That is to say, faith without works is dead. So if a man says he has faith he proves that faith by obeying God. In the previous dispensation that obedience was proved by obeying the law that God had given to Israel. Phil. 2:12 is written for the present dispensation. But it again, gives us the other side that proves the truth. That is to say, when Paul wrote, "by grace ye are saved, not by works" that is one side of the truth and "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" is the other side of that. And Luke 8:13 has been discussed many times on this forum - seek and ye shall find. Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John the Baptist Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 Judas was the son of perdition (cf. 2 Thess. 2:3). Does the phrase "those that Thou gavest Me" refer to those the Father gave to Christ to be saved? Obviously not, because Judas was not a believer and therefore never saved. The only way we can understand the phrase without contradicting Jn. 6:64 is to conclude that "those that Thou gavest Me" refers to those the Father gave to Christ to be followers, not to be saved. We read in John 6:64, "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him". The question is, what did our Lord mean by "those Thou hast given"? There is nothing in the word itself that indicates that God gave Judas to Christ to be saved. If He had, Judas would have been a believer. But as we find in Jn. 6:64, Judas was never a believer. We must therefore, conclude that God gave the 12, including Judas, to be Christ's disciples, not to be saved. Jesus also referred to Judas as a "devil" among the disciples in John 6:70, the title of a "devil" hardly sounds like a saved person. Love, Madeline John 17:12 KJV While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. The ones The Father gave the son are saved and "none of them are lost." These are the elect ones before the foundation of the world. Judas, the son of perdition was not given by the Father, He was never saved. God Bless John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danny Carlton Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 Monday Bob is Saved. Tuesday Bob sins. Thursday Bob dies and because he sinned and didn't repent, (according to the Arminians,) he is sent to hell. What was Bob saved from on Monday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 From getting salmonella on Friday! :uuhm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lettheredeemedsayso Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 This mentality in essence saying that the "blood of Christ doesn't cover all sin". 1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John the Baptist Posted September 13, 2007 Members Share Posted September 13, 2007 Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Clearly from these verses there is no room for one losing their salvation. It is "Eternal Life." God Bless John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 While doing research on an issue from another thread, I came across a number of attacks on the idea of eternal security. Have these been refuted:http://eternalsecurity.us/200_reasons.htm I've come to notice there are many professing Christians, as well as others, who don't believe in eternal security. Among these are many who outright fight the concept of eternal security; such as those at the website I posted a link to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 Luke 16:25 "Sonship" did not save him from torment! "And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." Luke 16:24,25 The rich man is the "son" of Abraham according to the flesh, and most certainly not a "son" of God (sonship). :roll As for the rest of the passages on that site - not one of them (including the one above) proves that you could lose your salvation. Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 I agree Madeline, but for some reason it seems there is a growing trend to denounce eternal security and to preach the opposite. Why are so many accepting this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MilkmanDan Posted October 2, 2007 Members Share Posted October 2, 2007 Okay maybe i can be accused of oversimplifying this issue. But, if we are to come to Jesus as children and Jesus says we are secure. Then aren't we secure? No room for debate. I mean we are fundamentalists right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 That's interesting...because I know several "Christians" that completely sever themselves from worldly living and would never use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin, yet even "they" question their salvation at times. But ultimately your salvation rests with you and God, but the scriptures clearly teach us that a born again person does not habitually sin. 1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. "Sinneth" - sin habitually. 1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. This does not mean sinless perfection, but it does mean not living a lifestyle of wallowing in the mire. Love, Madeline Are you saying that because I used the doctrine of OSAS as a license to sin at one point that I was not truly saved? I disagree with this. I had a point in my life where I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and I knew for a fact that I was saved. There is no possible way that I could not have been saved. I also believe that a person who is saved can fall back into sin and use the doctrine of OSAS as a license to sin and still remain saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zealyouthguy Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 Are you saying that because I used the doctrine of OSAS as a license to sin at one point that I was not truly saved? I disagree with this. I had a point in my life where I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and I knew for a fact that I was saved. There is no possible way that I could not have been saved. I also believe that a person who is saved can fall back into sin and use the doctrine of OSAS as a license to sin and still remain saved. Well, despite whether we like it or not, it's one way or the other... either we ARE OSAS, even those who for a time follow Christ and then chose to live in sin, or we aren't always saved. We are such short-sighted creatures believing that 10 years of living sinfully, or 30 years of living sinfully determines our standing with God. We are secure in God THROUGH CHRIST'S work and his grace. That is all. Now, I believe there ARE many folks who aren't saved who "said a prayer", but that's a different issue than someone who IS saved. And that's who we are talking about right? Or is the argument that they must not be saved if they fall into living in sin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zealyouthguy Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 Another thing... "habitual sin"... James 4:14-17 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Boy that sort of puts it into perspective for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted November 20, 2007 Members Share Posted November 20, 2007 John 5:24 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, absolutely, absolutely, for sure, done deal I say unto you, Jesus says to us He that heareth my word, Anyone who hears the Gospel and believeth on him that sent me, and believes on The Lord Jesus ChristSome say, "believeth" means to "continually believe." I go along with that. But I've been saved for 22 years, and there was a time when my faith was so weak, it was practically worthless. But I know that without a shadow of a doubt, I beleived on the Lord Jesus. I can tell you the time, I can take you to the place. So what about my lapse in faith? I stopped believing. I was in unbelief. It happens. John 5:24 says I still have everlasting life. Read on.... hath everlasting life, has everlasting life......I see no conditions there do you? "Has" is present tense.....means you have it now and shall not come into condemnation; Unless he sins, later?....nope, As long as he holds on and holds out?...No. Unless he "falls away"?....No. Unless he "stops beleiveing? I don't see any of those conditions listed, do you? but is passed from death unto life. "Is" is also present tense. When I got saved 22 years ago, I "passed from death unto life", right then and there. And I will never pass back again because John 5:24 says that I "shall not come into condemnation". Not only that, but the Bible says that I am sealed by the Holy Ghost, born of God, born of the Spirit, seated in the Heavenlies, and a son of God and God is my Father and no man can pluck me out of my Father's hand..."no man" includes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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