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Eternal Security

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Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Clearly from these verses there is no room for one losing their salvation. It is "Eternal Life."

God Bless
John

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While doing research on an issue from another thread, I came across a number of attacks on the idea of eternal security.

Have these been refuted:
http://eternalsecurity.us/200_reasons.htm

I've come to notice there are many professing Christians, as well as others, who don't believe in eternal security. Among these are many who outright fight the concept of eternal security; such as those at the website I posted a link to.

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Luke 16:25 "Sonship" did
not save him from torment!


"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." Luke 16:24,25

The rich man is the "son" of Abraham according to the flesh, and most certainly not a "son" of God (sonship). :roll

As for the rest of the passages on that site - not one of them (including the one above) proves that you could lose your salvation.

Love,
Madeline

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Okay maybe i can be accused of oversimplifying this issue.

But, if we are to come to Jesus as children and Jesus says we are secure. Then aren't we secure?

No room for debate. I mean we are fundamentalists right?

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That's interesting...because I know several "Christians" that completely sever themselves from worldly living and would never use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin, yet even "they" question their salvation at times. But ultimately your salvation rests with you and God, but the scriptures clearly teach us that a born again person does not habitually sin.

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

"Sinneth" - sin habitually.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This does not mean sinless perfection, but it does mean not living a lifestyle of wallowing in the mire.

Love,
Madeline


Are you saying that because I used the doctrine of OSAS as a license to sin at one point that I was not truly saved? I disagree with this. I had a point in my life where I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and I knew for a fact that I was saved. There is no possible way that I could not have been saved. I also believe that a person who is saved can fall back into sin and use the doctrine of OSAS as a license to sin and still remain saved.

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Are you saying that because I used the doctrine of OSAS as a license to sin at one point that I was not truly saved? I disagree with this. I had a point in my life where I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and I knew for a fact that I was saved. There is no possible way that I could not have been saved. I also believe that a person who is saved can fall back into sin and use the doctrine of OSAS as a license to sin and still remain saved.


Well, despite whether we like it or not, it's one way or the other... either we ARE OSAS, even those who for a time follow Christ and then chose to live in sin, or we aren't always saved.

We are such short-sighted creatures believing that 10 years of living sinfully, or 30 years of living sinfully determines our standing with God. We are secure in God THROUGH CHRIST'S work and his grace. That is all.

Now, I believe there ARE many folks who aren't saved who "said a prayer", but that's a different issue than someone who IS saved. And that's who we are talking about right?

Or is the argument that they must not be saved if they fall into living in sin?

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Another thing...

"habitual sin"...

James 4:14-17 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.


Boy that sort of puts it into perspective for me...

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John 5:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, absolutely, absolutely, for sure, done deal

I say unto you, Jesus says to us

He that heareth my word, Anyone who hears the Gospel

and believeth on him that sent me, and believes on The Lord Jesus Christ
Some say, "believeth" means to "continually believe." I go along with that. But I've been saved for 22 years, and there was a time when my faith was so weak, it was practically worthless. But I know that without a shadow of a doubt, I beleived on the Lord Jesus. I can tell you the time, I can take you to the place. So what about my lapse in faith? I stopped believing. I was in unbelief. It happens.
John 5:24 says I still have everlasting life. Read on....

hath everlasting life, has everlasting life......I see no conditions there do you? "Has" is present tense.....means you have it now

and shall not come into condemnation; Unless he sins, later?....nope, As long as he holds on and holds out?...No. Unless he "falls away"?....No. Unless he "stops beleiveing? I don't see any of those conditions listed, do you?

but is passed from death unto life. "Is" is also present tense. When I got saved 22 years ago, I "passed from death unto life", right then and there. And I will never pass back again because John 5:24 says that I "shall not come into condemnation". Not only that, but the Bible says that I am sealed by the Holy Ghost, born of God, born of the Spirit, seated in the Heavenlies, and a son of God and God is my Father and no man can pluck me out of my Father's hand..."no man" includes me.

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The Bible does make it very clear that there will be evidence of our salvation. If someone lives in continual sin and has no desire for the things of God and no conviction of sin, then there is a good chance that they were never saved to begin with, IMO. Once saved, always saved, though.

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I think that many professing Christians should take heed to what Jesus had stated in Matt.7:21-23, that not everyone who professes to be "in" Christ are saved. If anyone is living in habitual sin as a normal course of their life, then I would most certainly question their salvation because a tree is known by its fruits. If we get up in the morning and habitually commit adultery as often as we brush our teeth, then I would be concerned. Just because one preaches Christianity or does "good" deeds doesn't mean they're saved. The LORD knows the secret sins of those who are only verbal professors.

Love,
Madeline

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I think that many professing Christians should take heed to what Jesus had stated in Matt.7:21-23, that not everyone who professes to be "in" Christ are saved. If anyone is living in habitual sin as a normal course of their life, then I would most certainly question their salvation because a tree is known by its fruits. If we get up in the morning and habitually commit adultery as often as we brush our teeth, then I would be concerned. Just because one preaches Christianity or does "good" deeds doesn't mean they're saved. The LORD knows the secret sins of those who are only verbal professors.

Love,
Madeline
I sincerely apologize Madeline.
But, this sounds a little too much like achieving sinless perfection?
I completely agree a tree is known by its fruits, we should be bearing fruit and be conformed to Christ likeness.
But, we will still sin won't we?
Shouldn't we have to repent daily?

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I sincerely apologize Madeline.
But, this sounds a little too much like achieving sinless perfection?
I completely agree a tree is known by its fruits, we should be bearing fruit and be conformed to Christ likeness.
But, we will still sin won't we?
Shouldn't we have to repent daily?


Madeline is speaking of "habitual sins". Such as her example of adultery. One knows adultery is a sin, yet chooses to keep practicing adultery anyway.

Christians still sin because of our flesh, but we should quickly recognize we sinned, feel sorry for such and repent. That's vastly different from the person who determines it's okay for them to steal "little things" so they keep on stealing, feeling no sorrow or shame and no need to repent.

If a person is saved, the Holy Ghost will convict them when they sin. The longer we are in Christ, the fewer "major sins" (I use that term loosely here just as an example) we should have in our lives. We are to grow in maturity in Christ, becoming more Christ-like.

For one to claim they were born again 30 years ago, but to still be a serial adulterer just like they were 30 years ago; then the fruit we see is that of sin; not of righteousness.

Sure enough, the person truly saved for 30 years will yet sin, but he won't practice sin, it won't be a major part of his life, it won't be the same as it was 30 years ago.

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The struggle here is in the failure to see the differences between assurance of salvation and eternal security.

Assurance is about empirical evidences that salvation (regeneration or being "born again") has taken place. This is the subject matter of much of the epistle of I John.

Eternal security is the surety of God's preservation of those truly "born again."

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I just mentioned this in the other post.

Of course it would make absolutely no sense at all to assume that we can get saved, and then go on living like the world without any consequences whatsoever.

The answer is that even after we are saved we will stand before the judgment seat of Christ and give account to the things done in the body, whether good or bad. (2nd Corinthians 5:10) Our actions (or lack thereof) will have a significant impact on our eternity.

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In what sense do you think it affects someone's eternity? Where they spend eternity? Or merely their rewards or lack thereof?

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I want to be assured as a born-again believer, I try to bring John 3:16 when I feel upset, but sometimes I don't feel safe. I try to pray everyday for salvation, but the fact is that God is the one who grants it. I've come to Him with a repentant heart and faith in Jesus Christ but at the end of the day, it is still God's decision to save. I try to remember Romans 10:9. I'm so scared of the punishment like nobody else, but I don't feel 100%sure.

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I want to be assured as a born-again believer' date=' I try to bring John 3:16 when I feel upset, but sometimes I don't feel safe. I try to pray everyday for salvation, but the fact is that God is the one who grants it. I've come to Him with a repentant heart and faith in Jesus Christ but at the end of the day, it is still God's decision to save. I try to remember Romans 10:9. I'm so scared of the punishment like nobody else, but I don't feel 100%sure.[/quote']

God already made the decision - He desires to save everyone; however, He chose how He would save people, and many refuse to humble themselves, repent of their sins and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ (and His finished work of redemption) alone for salvation.



That is not a prayer of faith or according to His will. God is not going to answer a prayer of that nature. Either you are saved or you are not - He is not going to continually save you. If you have turned from your sins and received the Lord Jesus Christ (of the Bible - making sure you are trusting in the right person) as your Saviour (believing that He died in your place, paying the full penalty you deserve, that He was buried and physically rose again after three days), then you are saved - and God will keep you saved. If you have never trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ to save you, then you need to get saved.

God is not a grim ogre, withholding salvation until He feels like giving it to someone. Jesus already died, the way is already opened to the Father - you just need to humble yourself and come to Him. If you already have, then you need to claim His promises to keep you saved forever. If you truly are saved but walking in sin, that could explain a lack of assurance; however, not having assurance is not the same thing as losing (or not having) salvation. For your sake, don't confuse the two.

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I want to be assured as a born-again believer' date=' I try to bring John 3:16 when I feel upset, but sometimes I don't feel safe. I try to pray everyday for salvation, but the fact is that God is the one who grants it. I've come to Him with a repentant heart and faith in Jesus Christ but at the end of the day, it is still God's decision to save. I try to remember Romans 10:9. I'm so scared of the punishment like nobody else, but I don't feel 100%sure.[/quote']


God will ALWAYS be true to HIs Word. He says that if you call on Him in repentance and faith HE WILL SAVE YOU. You have to trust that HE is true to His Word. No one that has ever come to Jesus and asked Him to save them will be lost. I should also point out that though you must come in repentance and faith, it's not the amount of repentance or faith that save you, it's Christ and what HE did. The important thing is that you come to Him. If you've ever come to the Lord Jesus Christ and asked Him to save you from your sin, then His Word says HE did it. He's faithful.

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I want to be assured as a born-again believer' date=' I try to bring John 3:16 when I feel upset, but sometimes I don't feel safe. I try to pray everyday for salvation, but the fact is that God is the one who grants it. I've come to Him with a repentant heart and faith in Jesus Christ but at the end of the day, it is still God's decision to save. I try to remember Romans 10:9. I'm so scared of the punishment like nobody else, but I don't feel 100%sure.[/quote']


Susanna,

Do you know I didn't totally understand exactly how God works when I was a young believer. But as time passed the Holy Spirit showed me through reading and studying His Word that our salvation doesn't depend on anything we do!!! Our salvation depends on what Jesus Christ did for us. We accept salvation by faith. The Bible says that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. What this verse is saying is that our faith grows as we read and study the Bible. If you truly believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God came to earth to lay down His life for your sin, that He died was buried and rose the third day as it is recorded in the scriptures. God say that if you believe with your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ did all this that you shall be saved. We know that God is not a man that He should lie because the Bible teach us this also. What you need to do is look to Jesus Christ believing His Word and accept the truth that His Word teaches. Check out I John 5:13. Read it carefully.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

We have saying, If God says it that settles it!!!

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Yes, I agree with lettheredeemedsayso's writing and would further add that we serve God and find grace to live the way he wants us to live by faith as well. You may stumble and Satan (father of all lies) will try to convince you that somehow you are not worthy to be save or can't serve God, don't listen to him. Agree with God about the matter, confess, turn to God, pray for strength and believe by faith that God will give it as he's promised.

May God bless you.

Peace! TRC

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