Members lettheredeemedsayso Posted April 2, 2007 Members Share Posted April 2, 2007 Yes, I definitely do trust in the shed blood of Jesus at Calvary as the basis for my salvation. And when Jesus said "It is finished" I believe He was referring to salvation. Salvation is based on the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary and not on what we have do or will do. I believe that works salvation is one of the dangerous doctrines out there. We are saved unto good works but we do not work to be saved or to stay saved. Romans 8:38,39 Galatians 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted April 2, 2007 Members Share Posted April 2, 2007 I think that professing Christians who use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin are not saved or were never saved in the first place. It is true that we are saved by grace through faith, however it is the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Tit. 2:11,12). Those who turn the grace of God into lasciviousness were never saved in the first place. This is why the bible admonishes us to examine ourself to see whether we are genuine converts or just a tare among wheats (cf. Matt. 13:28-30; 2 Cor. 13:5). Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I think that professing Christians who use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin are not saved or were never saved in the first place. It is true that we are saved by grace through faith, however it is the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Tit. 2:11,12). Those who turn the grace of God into lasciviousness were never saved in the first place. This is why the bible admonishes us to examine ourself to see whether we are genuine converts or just a tare among wheats (cf. Matt. 13:28-30; 2 Cor. 13:5). Love, Madeline I know for a fact that I am saved but there have been times in my life that I used the doctrine of eternal security as a license to sin without punishment. I admit that I have done this before but I still know that I am saved. I am 100% certain that I will go to Heaven when I die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted April 2, 2007 Members Share Posted April 2, 2007 I know for a fact that I am saved but there have been times in my life that I used the doctrine of eternal security as a license to sin without punishment. I admit that I have done this before but I still know that I am saved. I am 100% certain that I will go to Heaven when I die. That's interesting...because I know several "Christians" that completely sever themselves from worldly living and would never use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin, yet even "they" question their salvation at times. But ultimately your salvation rests with you and God, but the scriptures clearly teach us that a born again person does not habitually sin. 1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. "Sinneth" - sin habitually. 1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. This does not mean sinless perfection, but it does mean not living a lifestyle of wallowing in the mire. Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 That's interesting...because I know several "Christians" that completely sever themselves from worldly living and would never use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin, yet even "they" question their salvation at times. But ultimately your salvation rests with you and God, but the scriptures clearly teach us that a born again person does not habitually sin. 1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. "Sinneth" - sin habitually. 1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. This does not mean sinless perfection, but it does mean not living a lifestyle of wallowing in the mire. Love, Madeline If a born again person cannot habitually sin then how do you explain the fact that I still accidentally cuss out of habit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted April 2, 2007 Members Share Posted April 2, 2007 If you are cussing "accidently" then that would mean you don't want to or didn't intend to. Rather than think of "habitual" and "habit" think more along the lines of the difference between sinning when we don't really want to, and sinning because we just don't care or because we refuse to accept what we are doing is a sin. Those who walk in Christ will yet sin, but when they do they feel the guilt put forth by the Holy Spirit and they repent and through prayer and trusting in Christ 'work' to eliminate that sin from their lives. Those who continue to walk in sin with no remorse, no sense of what they are doing is wrong and something they need to repent of, is more like what most people mean when they talk of "habitual sin". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted April 2, 2007 Members Share Posted April 2, 2007 If a born again person cannot habitually sin then how do you explain the fact that I still accidentally cuss out of habit? Perhpaps I need to clarify. Everyone "accidentally" sins, but if you're making a "practice" of it then the scriptures clearly state that you are not saved. When someone lights up a cigarette because it's a bad habit, did they "accidentally" light up the cigarette? They didn't acidentally light the cigarette, it was intentional. Do you purposely cuss? Hope you see the difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Perhpaps I need to clarify. Everyone "accidentally" sins, but if you're making a "practice" of it then the scriptures clearly state that you are not saved. When someone lights up a cigarette because it's a bad habit, did they "accidentally" light up the cigarette? They didn't acidentally light the cigarette, it was intentional. Do you purposely cuss? Hope you see the difference! Yes, I see the difference. Thank you. Unfortunately I now have a large group of people at my apartments who are trying to tell me that you can lose your salvation. I showed them Romans 8:38-39 and even John 3:16-18 but they still disagree with me. :sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 You should use this passage: John 10:27,28 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. There's no way around this one. :smile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 You should use this passage: John 10:27,28 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. There's no way around this one. :smile Hmm, maybe I will try that one. :thumb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ltl Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 Yes, I see the difference. Thank you. Unfortunately I now have a large group of people at my apartments who are trying to tell me that you can lose your salvation. I showed them Romans 8:38-39 and even John 3:16-18 but they still disagree with me. :sad Hi BaptistGirl, It is a good thing that you are trying your best to defend the doctrine of eternal security. May I ask where do your friends come from? What sort of church is it? That explains why they do not believe in eternal security. I have my fair share with Charismatics and Methodists and their main concern about eternal security is that they think that a person must be responsible to make sure they remain saved - they believe that a person loses their salvation if they turn away from Christ. This is because they do not understand the structure and the system of salvation - that's the problem with the majority of Evangelicals today - they think "getting saved" is just getting saved from hell that is. They forgot to mention that salvation also includes rescuing one from the POWER and the PRESENCE of sin. Read Romans 8:29-30. What did the Scriptures say about those saved - the elect? No, this is not Calvinism, but these two verses tell us that ALL those that God KNEW beforehand they will come to Christ (and thus, saved) - God predestines that ALL of them will be conformed to the image of Christ. Means, they will all remain saved in the end! Can a person who loses their salvation be conformed to Christ's image in the end? Read Philippians 1:6. What did the Scriptures say about the work of salvation in us? It will CONTINUE until the day of Jesus Christ - means the work of salvation will never stop until you either die, or get Raptured, whichever happens first - and the end product is, you go to Heaven to be with the Lord. By the way, Philippians 1:6 also answers the argument most of your friends probably have - ungodly living will cause one to go away from Christ. The verse had stated clearly God's work will CONTINUE in a genuine believer - if a professing believer still lives in ungodliness - no conviction of sin, no genuine knowledge or interest in God's Word, pleasure in worldly things, no spiritual growth, no chastisement when they have sinned - well, i guess you'd say these guys are children of the devil, not God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 You should use this passage: John 10:27,28 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. There's no way around this one. :smile So I told my neighbor about this verse and she just ignored the parts that say they will never parish and the parts that says that no man can pluck them out of God's hand. I guess there is no winning this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 There is no point in debating with those who ignore the truth. It's our duty to spread the truth and you have done that. We can't force others to accept the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pneu-engine Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 So I told my neighbor about this verse and she just ignored the parts that say they will never parish and the parts that says that no man can pluck them out of God's hand. I guess there is no winning this debate. I know what that is like, Holly. :sad We have to understand that some people have minds like concrete:::Thoroughly mixed up and permanently set I often wonder if arguing with some people is like wrassling with a pig in the mud. After a while we discover that the pig is actually enjoying it. :bang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted April 3, 2007 Members Share Posted April 3, 2007 So I told my neighbor about this verse and she just ignored the parts that say they will never parish and the parts that says that no man can pluck them out of God's hand. I guess there is no winning this debate. I would just let it go for now. Never perishing and not being able to be plucked out of God's hand is the focus of that passage. Sorry to hear about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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