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Hi everyone. As I said in my introductory post in the introductions forum, I am re investigating my Baptist roots. I fully intend to become Baptist again and to stay Baptist. I am currently attending a Fundamentalist Baptist Church called the Gospel Center. Anyway, I am having trouble understanding the doctrine of once saved, always saved or eternal security. Could someone please explain it to me and provide verses to back it up?

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Hi everyone. As I said in my introductory post in the introductions forum, I am re investigating my Baptist roots. I fully intend to become Baptist again and to stay Baptist. I am currently attending a Fundamentalist Baptist Church called the Gospel Center. Anyway, I am having trouble understanding the doctrine of once saved, always saved or eternal security. Could someone please explain it to me and provide verses to back it up?


Basically the doctrine of Eternal Security teaches that once someone has truly been born again, this person cannot lose their Salvation because God keeps the person. Here are several verses that back up this doctrine (Jn 3:16; 4:14; 5:24; 6:38-40, 62; 10:28; 17:9-12; Rom. 5:9; 6:2, 9, 10; 8:1; 1 Cor. 15:49; Eph. 1:13; Phil. 1:6; 2:13; Col. 3:3, 4; 2 Tim. 4:18; 1 Thess. 5:23; Heb. 7:25; 10:14; 12:2; 1 Pet. 1:4, 5, 18, 19, 23; 1 Jn. 2:19; 3:2; 5:4). Hope this helps!

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Basically the doctrine of Eternal Security teaches that once someone has truly been born again, this person cannot lose their Salvation because God keeps the person. Here are several verses that back up this doctrine (Jn 3:16; 4:14; 5:24; 6:38-40, 62; 10:28; 17:9-12; Rom. 5:9; 6:2, 9, 10; 8:1; 1 Cor. 15:49; Eph. 1:13; Phil. 1:6; 2:13; Col. 3:3, 4; 2 Tim. 4:18; 1 Thess. 5:23; Heb. 7:25; 10:14; 12:2; 1 Pet. 1:4, 5, 18, 19, 23; 1 Jn. 2:19; 3:2; 5:4). Hope this helps!


This helps very much. :) However, the verse John 17:9-12 confuses me. Here it is:

John 17:9 KJV I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

John 17:10 KJV And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

John 17:11 KJV And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:12 KJV While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

It says that none of them is lost but the son of perdition. Who is the son of perdition? :puzzled:

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How do you explain Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:20, and Philippians 2:12? These verses confuse me when speaking of eternal security.

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This helps very much. :) However, the verse John 17:9-12 confuses me. Here it is:

John 17:9 KJV I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

John 17:10 KJV And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

John 17:11 KJV And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:12 KJV While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

It says that none of them is lost but the son of perdition. Who is the son of perdition? :puzzled:


Judas is the Son of Perdition, who was not a true believer, but was the one who carried out the act of betraying Jesus.

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This helps very much. :) However, the verse John 17:9-12 confuses me. Here it is:

John 17:9 KJV I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

John 17:10 KJV And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

John 17:11 KJV And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:12 KJV While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

It says that none of them is lost but the son of perdition. Who is the son of perdition? :puzzled:


Judas was the son of perdition (cf. 2 Thess. 2:3). Does the phrase "those that Thou gavest Me" refer to those the Father gave to Christ to be saved? Obviously not, because Judas was not a believer and therefore never saved. The only way we can understand the phrase without contradicting Jn. 6:64 is to conclude that "those that Thou gavest Me" refers to those the Father gave to Christ to be followers, not to be saved. We read in John 6:64, "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him". The question is, what did our Lord mean by "those Thou hast given"? There is nothing in the word itself that indicates that God gave Judas to Christ to be saved. If He had, Judas would have been a believer. But as we find in Jn. 6:64, Judas was never a believer. We must therefore, conclude that God gave the 12, including Judas, to be Christ's disciples, not to be saved. Jesus also referred to Judas as a "devil" among the disciples in John 6:70, the title of a "devil" hardly sounds like a saved person.

Love,
Madeline

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How do you explain Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:20, and Philippians 2:12? These verses confuse me when speaking of eternal security.

2 Peter 2:20 is speaking of false teachers who infiltrate the church pretending to be Christians but create heresies in order to lead the people astray.

Philippians 2:12 has to do with A: Making sure we are saved, and B: living like we are saved.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is speaking hypothetically.

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Baptist Girl, Do you trust in shed blood of Jesus at Calvary as the basis for your salvation? What do you think Jesus was referring to when He said " It is finished"?


To Catholics, it's to be continued...in purgatory! :roll

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Baptist Girl, Do you trust in shed blood of Jesus at Calvary as the basis for your salvation? What do you think Jesus was referring to when He said " It is finished"?


Yes, I definitely do trust in the shed blood of Jesus at Calvary as the basis for my salvation. And when Jesus said "It is finished" I believe He was referring to salvation. :)

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To Catholics, it's to be continued...in purgatory! :roll


Yes and this is very sad. You speak this as though I am a Catholic though and I am not a Catholic. I am a former Catholic.

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Judas is the Son of Perdition, who was not a true believer, but was the one who carried out the act of betraying Jesus.


Oh okay. I didn't realize that Judas was the son of perdition. This and other posts helps me tremendously. Thank you!

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2 Peter 2:20 is speaking of false teachers who infiltrate the church pretending to be Christians but create heresies in order to lead the people astray.

Philippians 2:12 has to do with A: Making sure we are saved, and B: living like we are saved.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is speaking hypothetically.


Okay. I am curious about Hebrews 6:4-6. How is it speaking hypothetically? :puzzled:

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Okay. I am curious about Hebrews 6:4-6. How is it speaking hypothetically? :puzzled:


From the Barnes Commentary:

Heb 6:6 -
If they shall fall away - literally,

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Yes, I definitely do trust in the shed blood of Jesus at Calvary as the basis for my salvation. And when Jesus said "It is finished" I believe He was referring to salvation. :)


Salvation is based on the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary and not on what we have do or will do. I believe that works salvation is one of the dangerous doctrines out there. We are saved unto good works but we do not work to be saved or to stay saved.

Romans 8:38,39

Galatians 3

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I think that professing Christians who use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin are not saved or were never saved in the first place. It is true that we are saved by grace through faith, however it is the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Tit. 2:11,12). Those who turn the grace of God into lasciviousness were never saved in the first place. This is why the bible admonishes us to examine ourself to see whether we are genuine converts or just a tare among wheats (cf. Matt. 13:28-30; 2 Cor. 13:5).

Love,
Madeline

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I think that professing Christians who use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin are not saved or were never saved in the first place. It is true that we are saved by grace through faith, however it is the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Tit. 2:11,12). Those who turn the grace of God into lasciviousness were never saved in the first place. This is why the bible admonishes us to examine ourself to see whether we are genuine converts or just a tare among wheats (cf. Matt. 13:28-30; 2 Cor. 13:5).

Love,
Madeline


I know for a fact that I am saved but there have been times in my life that I used the doctrine of eternal security as a license to sin without punishment. I admit that I have done this before but I still know that I am saved. I am 100% certain that I will go to Heaven when I die.

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I know for a fact that I am saved but there have been times in my life that I used the doctrine of eternal security as a license to sin without punishment. I admit that I have done this before but I still know that I am saved. I am 100% certain that I will go to Heaven when I die.


That's interesting...because I know several "Christians" that completely sever themselves from worldly living and would never use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin, yet even "they" question their salvation at times. But ultimately your salvation rests with you and God, but the scriptures clearly teach us that a born again person does not habitually sin.

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

"Sinneth" - sin habitually.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This does not mean sinless perfection, but it does mean not living a lifestyle of wallowing in the mire.

Love,
Madeline

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That's interesting...because I know several "Christians" that completely sever themselves from worldly living and would never use the Doctrine of Eternal Security as a license to sin, yet even "they" question their salvation at times. But ultimately your salvation rests with you and God, but the scriptures clearly teach us that a born again person does not habitually sin.

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

"Sinneth" - sin habitually.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This does not mean sinless perfection, but it does mean not living a lifestyle of wallowing in the mire.

Love,
Madeline


If a born again person cannot habitually sin then how do you explain the fact that I still accidentally cuss out of habit?

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If you are cussing "accidently" then that would mean you don't want to or didn't intend to.

Rather than think of "habitual" and "habit" think more along the lines of the difference between sinning when we don't really want to, and sinning because we just don't care or because we refuse to accept what we are doing is a sin.

Those who walk in Christ will yet sin, but when they do they feel the guilt put forth by the Holy Spirit and they repent and through prayer and trusting in Christ 'work' to eliminate that sin from their lives.

Those who continue to walk in sin with no remorse, no sense of what they are doing is wrong and something they need to repent of, is more like what most people mean when they talk of "habitual sin".

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If a born again person cannot habitually sin then how do you explain the fact that I still accidentally cuss out of habit?


Perhpaps I need to clarify. Everyone "accidentally" sins, but if you're making a "practice" of it then the scriptures clearly state that you are not saved. When someone lights up a cigarette because it's a bad habit, did they "accidentally" light up the cigarette? They didn't acidentally light the cigarette, it was intentional. Do you purposely cuss? Hope you see the difference!

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Perhpaps I need to clarify. Everyone "accidentally" sins, but if you're making a "practice" of it then the scriptures clearly state that you are not saved. When someone lights up a cigarette because it's a bad habit, did they "accidentally" light up the cigarette? They didn't acidentally light the cigarette, it was intentional. Do you purposely cuss? Hope you see the difference!


Yes, I see the difference. Thank you.

Unfortunately I now have a large group of people at my apartments who are trying to tell me that you can lose your salvation. I showed them Romans 8:38-39 and even John 3:16-18 but they still disagree with me. :sad

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You should use this passage:

John 10:27,28 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

There's no way around this one. :smile

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You should use this passage:

John 10:27,28 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

There's no way around this one. :smile


Hmm, maybe I will try that one. :thumb

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