Members kevinmiller Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 @ Katy-Anne Fine, you may believe that holding hands is okay. You may let your kids hold hands. Don't judge someone else who believes it is wrong. If having rules in the house causes him to rebel, then he has another issue. I say the issue here is that their is a woman who doesn't respect authority that is pulling the son away from his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 Good posting, LuAnne and Kevin... KatyAnne if I were you I'd stop now...the more you talk like you are talking, the more grief you will have when your own child reaches the age of 18. Guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 While the child is under the fathers roof he should obey his father. If the child moves out and establishes his own home then the situation has changed. Some have made the statement that holding hands leads to more physical contact or lusts for sex or some such. I don't believe that is the case for all people. When I was "dating" it was common to hold your dates hand when walking together and I never felt any sexual feelings from this. For myself, it was more of a statement that this girl was with me and I was her protector. That said, while a child is under the roof of the parent if the parent instructs them to do or not do certain things then the child is obligated to obey whether they agree or not. Once the child moves out on their own they have set themselves as being accountable directly to God and no longer through their parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 While the child is under the fathers roof he should obey his father. If the child moves out and establishes his own home then the situation has changed. Some have made the statement that holding hands leads to more physical contact or lusts for sex or some such. I don't believe that is the case for all people. When I was "dating" it was common to hold your dates hand when walking together and I never felt any sexual feelings from this. For myself, it was more of a statement that this girl was with me and I was her protector. That said, while a child is under the roof of the parent if the parent instructs them to do or not do certain things then the child is obligated to obey whether they agree or not. Once the child moves out on their own they have set themselves as being accountable directly to God and no longer through their parents. That's fine and everything...the original post seemed to say that not only is there hand holding but the girl wants to lean all over the boy and who knows what else when the parents aren't looking. That combined with her attitude and her pulling away of the son's love for the parents is NOT a good situation. This boy is only 18 (yes ONLY) and for him to want to move out solely so he could have his way with his girlfriend is a very immature, selfish, and rebellious move. There are lots of good reasons to move away from your parents and that is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted April 4, 2007 Administrators Share Posted April 4, 2007 Good posting, LuAnne and Kevin... KatyAnne if I were you I'd stop now...the more you talk like you are talking, the more grief you will have when your own child reaches the age of 18. Guaranteed. Yep! It's easy to say "When my kid is 18..." but it just doesn't always work out that way. You are not seeing what is really happening here. You are looking at it through the eyes of the world instead of the eyes of faith. The issue isn't hand-holding - it is rebellion. As many have said, hand-holding goes further, usually. I'm glad it didn't for you, but it has in this case. Sin is like that - start with something seemingly harmless, and it builds up. The sin isn't necessarily in the act of hand-holding (although it is disobedience on the son's part whether or not you agree!), it is in the presumption of doing something he has specifically stated he doesn't want them to do...in HIS house, not hers. Submission doesn't end when we turn 18. And if she is thumbing her nose so strongly at the father now, she will be 100% worse when/if they marry. The boy's training will war against his "freedom" because he has been taught to do what's right. He will be miserable. And you condone it? Shows you really have a lot of maturing to do yet, dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 He's in a big bind though isn't he? Because according to his parents rules he has to obey them till he moves out, but they won't let him move out till he's married...umm... Suzy, I don't really think your comment about me getting grief when mine turns 18 is necessary, since we'll be letting them hold hands, and be hoping they make their own decisions as adults. I'm in a situation right now where my parents don't particularly care one way or another about the man I married, they wish he wasn't IFB. But my 19 year old sister is dating a 32 year old man that has a stepdaughter four years younger than my sister. He's been married and divorced. He's only been saved three months. My mum and dad know that they hold hands, hug, kiss and everything and are fine with it. They encourage it. When they found out that although Jordan and I held hands we wanted to save our first kiss for marriage, they were AGAINST that. My dad said we needed to be passionate. So was I supposed to do what my parents wanted? We didn't necessarily think kissing was wrong, but it was a step that we did not want to take until marriage. Anyway this will most likely be my last post in this thread...to be honest I can't stand this topic lol so I'll most likely bow out now, everyone knows where I stand anyway. Katy-Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 Yep! It's easy to say "When my kid is 18..." but it just doesn't always work out that way. You are not seeing what is really happening here. You are looking at it through the eyes of the world instead of the eyes of faith. The issue isn't hand-holding - it is rebellion. As many have said, hand-holding goes further, usually. I'm glad it didn't for you, but it has in this case. Sin is like that - start with something seemingly harmless, and it builds up. The sin isn't necessarily in the act of hand-holding (although it is disobedience on the son's part whether or not you agree!), it is in the presumption of doing something he has specifically stated he doesn't want them to do...in HIS house, not hers. Submission doesn't end when we turn 18. And if she is thumbing her nose so strongly at the father now, she will be 100% worse when/if they marry. The boy's training will war against his "freedom" because he has been taught to do what's right. He will be miserable. And you condone it? Shows you really have a lot of maturing to do yet, dear. I agree. I'm 19 now and I have no intention of moving out until I marry. I may have my own apartment when I teach English in Korea for a year, but I plan on coming back home afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 That's fine and everything...the original post seemed to say that not only is there hand holding but the girl wants to lean all over the boy and who knows what else when the parents aren't looking. That combined with her attitude and her pulling away of the son's love for the parents is NOT a good situation. This boy is only 18 (yes ONLY) and for him to want to move out solely so he could have his way with his girlfriend is a very immature, selfish, and rebellious move. There are lots of good reasons to move away from your parents and that is not one of them. I'm not in disagreement with you here Suzy. The girl is obviously being disrespectful of the boys parents. The boy seems to be making decisions based entirely upon his feelings for this girl. Likely as not, neither the boy nor the girl are as mature as they think they are. While it's very sad and absolutely not the best way, some people must learn the hard way. Of course, at 18 the boy can move out with or without his parents permission. He can also do this wisely or for the wrong reasons but in a legal aspect there is nothing his parents can do to stop him if he refuses to listen to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 KatyAnne--All I know is that before I had kids, I said stuff like "My five year old will NEVER act like that, I won't tolerate it!" Well um, I still don't tolerate it, but I have a six year old (and a four and a two) who does stuff I would have judged somebody else's five year old for doing!!!! So I know for a FACT that even for the best parents, the teen years are a struggle...and the more we judge others for their parenting methods the more we will wish we had kept our mouths shut. God warns that the same measure we mete will be meted to us again...the same judgement will come back upon us. You think his kid deserves freedom? KatyAnne you should pray that your child never expects all that freedom. You might be mature enough to know right from wrong...but most 18 year olds do not unless they are walking very close to the Lord...which is getting hard to find even in the best homes. Before I had kids I thought I knew everything about raising kids. Now that I have three, I realize I know NOTHING about raising kids. And the teen years freak me out because I know that by that time I'll realize I know a negative number of some sort about raising kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted April 4, 2007 Administrators Share Posted April 4, 2007 I agree. I'm 19 now and I have no intention of moving out until I marry. I may have my own apartment when I teach English in Korea for a year, but I plan on coming back home afterwards. Good for you, Kevin! Our son is living with us now, and will be moving into the dorm next year. He is looking forward to it, and we are sort of. We are glad that he will be able to be around his buds, and yet we will still see him a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ltl Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 Katy-Anne, it's not about the age that counts - as long as the person is under the home of the parents, he or she IS under parental authority: "Therefore a man shall LEAVE his father and mother, and CLEAVE unto his wife..." The Biblical mandate is that the person leaves his parents control ONLY upon marriage. I'd admit you Westerners have this problem, because you all grow up in a culture where a child has freedom upon the age of 18 (technically and socially). The problem is that such is not so in Oriental societies - this includes traditional Chinese culture. We face the opposite problems as you, as many traditionalist Chinese households often insist their children stay under the parents' roof even after marriage. The Biblical way is between both these two cultures - Notice how Isaac did not even get to choose his wife - Abraham was the person that chose for him. But after marriage, they no longer remained under parental control. Notice the Scriptures say, "CHILDREN, obey your parents..." (Ephesians 6:1) [not husbands/wives] Yes, ditto that Kevin - no moving out for me till marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 Suzy, you hit on a key point. Children are not all the same and the way one raises and deals with one child may not work with another. Our sons are like night and day in many ways and that presents a real challenge. While a "look" from me will stop my oldest son in his tracks (and always has) it has little effect upon our youngest son. Dinner is ready, gotta run! :hungry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 Katy-Anne, it's not about the age that counts - as long as the person is under the home of the parents, he or she IS under parental authority: "Therefore a man shall LEAVE his father and mother, and CLEAVE unto his wife..." The Biblical mandate is that the person leaves his parents control ONLY upon marriage. I'd admit you Westerners have this problem, because you all grow up in a culture where a child has freedom upon the age of 18 (technically and socially). The problem is that such is not so in Oriental societies - this does not just include Chinese culture, but HEBREW culture as well. We face the opposite problems as you, as many traditionalist Chinese households often insist their children stay under the parents' roof even after marriage. The Biblical way is between both these two cultures - Notice how Isaac did not even get to choose his wife - Abraham was the person that chose for him. But after marriage, they no longer remained under parental control. Notice the Scriptures say, "CHILDREN, obey your parents..." (Ephesians 6:1) [not husbands/wives] Yes, ditto that Kevin - no moving out for me till marriage. Good stuff! The only part I disagree with is I know families who won't let their daughter go to college because they feel they should stay under the roof until marriage... I think college should be attended. However when I was in college I was still under my father's authority. Until age 21 and I got married! Yep! And I didn't turn out to hate God or rebel from Christianity either, and my parents were definately not perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 Suzy, you hit on a key point. Children are not all the same and the way one raises and deals with one child may not work with another. Our sons are like night and day in many ways and that presents a real challenge. While a "look" from me will stop my oldest son in his tracks (and always has) it has little effect upon our youngest son. Dinner is ready, gotta run! True... ours are like that as well... And while one son may be able to gently hold hands with a girl (I vote fiance) and be fine, the other may be jumping in bed with her. Which is why its safe to just nix it across the board. If I were to ever allow hand holding at all, it would definately not be until after engagement. I think the Bible is clear that at least until then, guys should keep their hands off the girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted April 4, 2007 Members Share Posted April 4, 2007 Suzy, you hit on a key point. Children are not all the same and the way one raises and deals with one child may not work with another. Our sons are like night and day in many ways and that presents a real challenge. While a "look" from me will stop my oldest son in his tracks (and always has) it has little effect upon our youngest son. Dinner is ready, gotta run! Dinner? At 1:00? And good posting TL! :thumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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