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Bryon

Pastorial Duties in the New World Order

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Greetings. Praise the Lord.

I came across an unusual photo of a pastor, so called, handing out combat knives to Israeli soldiers, and another where a group of pastors, so called, were cleaning an Israeli cannon. Please add your comments as to the biblical basis pertaining to such Gospel ministry.

[/list:u] Note: Pastor Vineyard created some controversy by telling the President of the United States to go to Hell. I wonder does he have plans of retiring in Israel? Maranatha

Givati Special Forces soldiers being given knives by Dr. Vineyard

American pastors helping to clean an Israeli cannon



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Praise the Lord!

The pastors are on tour as part of a Baptist federation and they are showing their support for Bush's war on terrorism. (Though Pastor Vineyard obviously doesn't see eye to eye with GW Bush's program.) It appears that Christians (?) and Jews can agree on some things; there are too many sinners in the world and they intend to follow the Pope's latest crusade to rid the world of evil starting with Muslims. But what happens when they run out of Muslims? I think it best that the pastors get busy and preach holiness otherwise the pews could end up empty as the righteous rid the world of sinners.

Maranatha

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Praise the Lord!

The pastors are on tour as part of a Baptist federation and they are showing their support for Bush's war on terrorism. (Though Pastor Vineyard obviously doesn't see eye to eye with GW Bush's program.) It appears that Christians (?) and Jews can agree on some things; there are too many sinners in the world and they intend to follow the Pope's latest crusade to rid the world of evil starting with Muslims. But what happens when they run out of Muslims? I think it best that the pastors get busy and preach holiness otherwise the pews could end up empty as the righteous rid the world of sinners.

You are wrong on the part that is in bold, the pastors are actually showing support for Israel's right to exist. Anyone that knows Pastor Vineyard, knows that. How do I know? BroBen, (my brother) went with him on a trip to Israel.

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Bro. Jim Vineyard would not have told the President to go to Hell. Perhaps you might like to quote your statement in context or refrain from slandering a man of God like him.

The Bible teaches that we are to defend our families and our countries - so what is the problem here?

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Praise the Lord!

I originally obtained the information from the Fighting Fundamentalist Forum and Dr. Vineyard told the Israeli press (Haaretz) the following. "Bush's road map violates the Torah and even though as a Christian, I don't usually curse, the Jews in Israel should tell Bush to go to hell." And here is an article which gives more context.

Pastor Jim Vineyard: Tell Bush to go to hell

And here is the article direct from Haaretz.

N.Y. anti-pullout delegation inspects Qassam damage

Maranatha

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Praise the Lord!

I originally obtained the information from the Fighting Fundamentalist Forum and Dr. Vineyard told the Israeli press (Haaretz) the following. "Bush's road map violates the Torah and even though as a Christian, I don't usually curse, the Jews in Israel should tell Bush to go to hell." And here is an article which gives more context.

Pastor Jim Vineyard: Tell Bush to go to hell

And here is the article direct from Haaretz.

N.Y. anti-pullout delegation inspects Qassam damage

Maranatha


That is still not conclusive proof.

Bryon,

Are you not yet aware that the news media has as its main goal to slant, or color, the news to their own advantage.

Case in point::::

Our very own pastor wrote several articles for a local newspaper that portrayed the plan of salvation in the simplest to understand terms he could muster. That newspaper messed it up in grande fashion.

An excellent maxim that I heard regarding the news media goes like this::::

"Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see."

Here's the thing, Bryon::::

***Wouldn't you like to have this verified one way or another???

***Wouldn't you like to know the truth, once and for all???

***How is it that you are so quick to believe slanderous propaganda, and then promote it without having it verified from the man himself???

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Praise the Lord!

Well you could call Dr. Vineyard and ask him personally. And you could call the newspaper and see if they have the interview on tape. Then you could get an expert to examine the tape; just in case they tampered with it. Yes, who knows maybe he was misquoted, and he really told the Jews to pray for the President that he would go to heaven.

Maranatha

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Praise the Lord!

Well you could call Dr. Vineyard and ask him personally. And you could call the newspaper and see if they have the interview on tape. Then you could get an expert to examine the tape; just in case they tampered with it. Yes, who knows maybe he was misquoted, and he really told the Jews to pray for the President that he would go to heaven.

Maranatha


And there you are Bryon. See how easy it is to do that???

Wouldn't it be a lot better to do that instead of promoting and spreading slander that you have not verified???

We know that Satan is slandering the brethern on a continual basis. I certainly would not want to be linked up to him (i.e. Satan) , nor would I want to participate in his activities.

However, you, Bryon, have not felt the need to observe this caution but instead have run head-long into the devil's workshop and allowed him to use you as one of his favorite tools, a slanderer.

As far as what Dr Vineyard allegedly said::::

Suppose he would have made a statement to the effect that the president of the United States will go to Hell if he is not genuinely saved/converted/born-again/redeemed/etc. That is a completely true and generic statement. The media could very easily "twist" that and make it fit their (hidden) agenda simply by removing the bold part. That hidden agenda of theirs is to make true men of God look bad. I have personally seen them do this time and again.

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Greetings in Jesus Name

Dear Pneu-engine, The Haaretz news agency wasn't lying about Dr. Vineyard comments, and indeed they have no reason to do so, and especially so since a false report of that nature could subject them to a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Pastor Vineyard has not repudiated the quote and so there is no reason to believe that there was any error whatsoever as regards the article.

As it stands you yourself are guilty of the very charges that you have levelled against others in that you have slandered their reputation, by way of a callous act of libel, through placing in print comments, and that without evidence; to the effect that an Israeli newspaper agency and yours truly were operating as agents of the devil.

It was your duty to first investigate the facts before making any such charges, and becoming what you falsely accused others of being. You will of course repent, and take care not to repeat such folly in the future. Your motive may have been noble; but you allowed your feelings to override caution with regard to falsely accusing others.

Maranatha

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We have all seen Satan's activities and we know that Satan is the author of all lies. PE just calls 'em like he sees 'em.

Byron even when you are quoting scriptures you are misrepresenting God's Word. That is exactly the same thing that Old Scratch does - from as far back as Genesis when the first lie that was ever told!

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Greetings in Jesus Name,

Dear IM4given, You maintain that I am quoting scripture improperly, but have failed to prove from scripture where exactly that charge applies. I have seen much scripture used out of context to support the religious opinions being proffered here as the truth. Your arbitrary pronouncements do not stand the test when compared to what the word of God actually says, and indeed some concepts being forwarded here are not only contrary to scripture they are also utter impossibilities. Religious ideology and the truth of Holy scripture are two different subjects, and it is in the former where error is found, and not in the word of God.

Maranatha

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IF brother Vineyard made that statement - exactly as presented in the news article - then he was wrong. However, we all know how much the media can distort things, especially when it comes to quoting Christians. I would rather give Vineyard the benefit of the doubt than a Jewish newspaper that more than likely hates anything Christian.

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Greetings in Jesus Name,

May I suggest that prayer be forwarded for Dr. Vineyard. He has after all been ill, and has since retired; his son, I believe having taken over care of the pastorate. Some ill advised words spoken in passion, most likely due to a sense of helplessness in the face of confronting that senseless human misery, do not erase a lifetime of service on behalf of the Lord.

The Pastor has forgotten however what it is that the Lord actually delivers the Jews from and has assumed that He is focused on rescuing them from the wrath of the Philistines and neglected their spiritual need to be first plucked from the hand of the devil. Even in the OT it is plainly revealed that the former was contingent on the latter.

Becoming tangled up in the politics of the world tends to cause spiritual blindness, and indeed believers so occupied invariably become transformed into useful pawns in the hands of the unregenerate. The irony of it all is that both JN Darby and CI Scofield, though heretics, correctly taught that believers are not of the world, and therefore ought not to participate in the politics thereof.

The recent about face among dispensationalists indicates that such prophetic speculation has been hijacked for political purposes, and is now being used to help foment war. Indeed I suspect that Christians are being thereby set up to take the blame for the results of a limited nuclear war. From my understanding it is NWO occultists who are orchestrating the shameful display whereby Christians are portrayed as warmongers and dangerous religious radicals.

It does appear that in some cases the antichrist show trials will be rather short. It is however all the innocent who are indited by their association, however remote, with the NWO toadies that gives yours truly most cause for concern. Holy scripture declares that those who live by the sword shall perish thereby, and so it can't be said that the unruly were never warned.

Revelation 13:9-10 If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Maranatha

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I do not know the limits of Bro. Vineyard's involvement of political issues - however, I can 100% guarantee that his association with the Jews and with Israel is to reach the Jews for Christ and make sure they hear a sound presentation of the Gospel. My pastor has gone to Israel twice with Vineyard for the purpose of winning the Jews to the Lord.

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I do not know the limits of Bro. Vineyard's involvement of political issues - however, I can 100% guarantee that his association with the Jews and with Israel is to reach the Jews for Christ and make sure they hear a sound presentation of the Gospel. My pastor has gone to Israel twice with Vineyard for the purpose of winning the Jews to the Lord.


I agree, Jerry. I hear that too, and is the very reason that a previous statement re. his alleged disposition to Pres. Bush just doesn't make sense. Please take a look at this link, and you will again see a man on fire for God, and yet without slanderous tactics up his sleeve.

http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2005 ... r_to_5.php




«-- Yesha Arabs once again thank Israel for a string of concessions | Main | Letter from Ruth and Nadia Matar --»
Open Letter to President Bush, by Pastor Jim Vineyard
Open Letter to President Bush, by Pastor Jim Vineyard
Christian-Zionist greetings to you, sir, from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

Normally, sir, even as a Christian, I don't cry much. But, today, as I read from Israel, Arutz Sheva, the following, I could not help weeping: "A senior official in Israeli intelligence estimates that at least 100 Jewish residents will be killed in the expulsion process, since these residents have no intention of leaving their homes and farms voluntarily, and since the IDF has every intention of using live ammunition to facilitate the expulsion of Jews from Katif and Northern Samaria, while razing their homes, farms, and synagogues."


Why does a fellow Texan, and a fellow Christian weep, sir? Last week, our President MOVED A MOUNTAIN to get legislation passed in an effort to try to save the life of a POOR LITTLE VEGETATIVE LADY IN FLORIDA [WHICH, LET ME BE CLEAR, I'M VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF SAVING HER LIFE], but now, we are 'complicit' in the plan to forcefully expel JEWS FROM THEIR HOMES, SYNAGOGUES, AND CEMETERIES, in which the Israeli Government plans on "killing" at least 100 Jews.

Sir, cannot someone of your advisors see the inconsistency of these two different positions and remind you that you, sir, profess to be a born-again Christian? Or, Sir, is the ARAB OIL so important to us that we give up ALL OUR CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES? HOW, SIR, DOES THE MESSIAH, WHOM YOU AND I BOTH PROFESS TO BELIEVE IN, LOOK AT THIS SORT OF "DOUBLE DEALING?"

In the last few days, sir, at a demonstration of "pro-disengagement LEFTISTS" in Israel, THOSE IN FAVOR OF WHAT THE USA GOV'T IS PUSHING], they sang two anthems. First, they sang "Hatikva", the Israeli National Anthem. Fine, that's good. But, second, sir, they sang John Lennon's song "Imagine" WHICH speaks of if only 'THERE WERE NO RELIGION, NO HEAVEN, NO GOD, ETC."

DR. ANITA TUCKER, WHO IS AN AMERICAN-ISRAEL DUAL CITIZEN, LIVING IN THE GUSH, wrote me: "This statement that the Pro Disengagement people made in Tel Aviv tells clearly what this is all about. For this goal of no Religion, no heaven, and NO GOD, they are willing to sacrifice freedom, democracy, and allow the terrorists to re-arm themselves to take over the world against Christians and Jews." Now, sir, Dr. Tucker is one of those Jews who will be deported from her MAGNIFICENT FARM there in the Gush Katif. And, sir, I have no idea what her position might be as far as wanting to stay on her farm, but God forbid, maybe this dear friend of many Christian Zionists like you and I are, sir she might, God forbid, be one of the 100 Jews the Israeli government is planning to bump off.

Mr. President [my Israeli friend Colonel (ret.) Yoash Tsiddon-Chatto will dump ice water on me at my boldness], HOW DOES THIS 'DEPORTATION SCHEME - PLANNED MURDER OF 100 JEWS' SQUARE, SIR, WITH THE "MOUNTAIN MOVING" PLAN TO SAVE THE LIFE OF "JUST ONE FLORIDA WOMAN?" Sir, does Terri Shaivo, living in the state your brother governs, have more value than the life of 100 [unfortunate] Jews living in the land that the Arabs (who have the oil we must have) want?

Sir, "LAND FOR PEACE" with the Arabs has never worked. God gave that land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God did not give it to Ishmael, Arafat and Abu Mazen! Sir, in Disengaging from so-called "Palestine," we will be 'DISEMBOWELING ISRAEL." WHOSE SIDE ARE WE ON?
Sir, the Palestinians have a Great P.R. machine. But, what they lack is the TRUTH. Let's not fall for the often repeated lie, but let us stand up for what is right and what is Scriptural!

Sir, the Palestinians have great P.R., but it is really B.S. (Pardon my poor boy from the panhandle of your Texas' French.) Let's not be PC and incur God Almighty's wrath upon US.

Sir, the sanctity of Israel and God's continued blessing on America are more important than the favor of the Arabs with their oil. Sir, I would rather walk with GOD'S BLESSINGS than drive IN A LAND GOD HAS FORSAKEN.

Your friend and servant,

Jim Vineyard,
Baptist Pastor,
Oklahoma City, OK,
March 29, 2005

Posted by Joseph Alexander Norland at March 31, 2005 08:04 AM

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TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.israpundit.com/mt-tb.cgi/8104



Comments

1. Barbara Hedrick said:

Amen!!! Wherever we (Christian Zionists) stand...we(Christian Zionists) stand with Israel.

Posted by: Barbara Hedrick on March 31, 2005 12:15 AM


2. herb landis said:

I am looking for Jim Vineyards email address I would like to personally thank him for the wonderfull letter he sent President bush, I would also like to keep in touch with him from time to time as I am involved with several groups trying to stop the roadtrap from going through (G-d forbid).

Posted by: herb landis on April 3, 2005 12:26 PM


3. William Tyson said:

You can reach him at www.YedidimofIsrael.com

I will see him tomorrow night.

WTyson

Posted by: William Tyson on April 6, 2005 12:15 AM


4. Miriam Kalman said:

Dear Pastor Jim Vineyard,
We will all see who the Messiah is once he comes, I wholeheartedly agree
with you on that. Right now we all need to search deep in our hearts and
learn what it is that G-d wants from us. As it said in Psalms, "What does
G-d want from you? Only to love him and live by his law." If we don't
seriously try to understand what G-d wants from us and live by it, we are
taking a risk of another Holocaust. We shouldn't blame G-d when tragedy comes, (G-d forbid). We should take full responsibility for not keeping our
covenant with G-d. The rule for creating a better world is all in the Bible.
The longer we resist it the more blood will be shed.

Posted by: Miriam Kalman on April 11, 2005 05:59 PM


5. gediminas lebionka said:

PASTOR Jim Vineyard.
MUSLIMS ARE SONS OF ABRAHAM. THEY HAVE RIGHT TO LIVE ON HOLLY LAND AS THEY ARE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD."Land of Israel belongs to the sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? YES> FOREVER.

GOD IS GREAT.

Posted by: gediminas lebionka on April 12, 2005 06:23 PM


6. Resa Tyree said:

I happened upon your letter on the internet, to President Bush,I am 100% in agreement with you, we must stand with Israel and the Land because of our love for Yeshua and
the covenant he made with Abraham that is unbreakable, Genesis 15, 17, I love Israel
because my Lord and Savior loves Israel, and I align my self with HIM forever.

Thank You,
God Bless and Keep You,
Resa

Posted by: Resa Tyree on April 13, 2005 11:20 AM


7. Johnny Weintraub said:

Thank you, Reverend Vineyard, for all of your work and dedication to bring to the attention of the American people the path to destruction being promoted by the United States State Department, with reference to Gush Katif, Israel. Jews are being singled out and punished, simply because we are Jews. Josef Stalin did the same thing to hundreds of thousands of Jews who were living in the former Soviet Union. These miserable souls were yanked from their regular places of abode and shipped off by railcar to Siberia. Hundreds of thousands of Jews perished in the Communist labor camps in Siberia. Jews have no justice, even in the Jewish State of Israel. It is sad.

Posted by: Johnny Weintraub on April 17, 2005 12:09 AM


8. aaron a kaplan said:

Hi- That was a very powerful and appealing open letter you wrote to Pres. Bush. I don't know what the answer is but I believe that God(truth and the light) is on our side and we as Jews and Christians will prevail. The son of a Rabbi, who had moved to Israel from Dallas, was one of many killed defending some of those 8000 settlers in Gaza. It is a difficult situation anyway you look at it considering that those settlers are surrounded by over a million Arabs.
You might enjoy and be inspired by my #1 award-winning song, "We're Coming Home" which helped to raise millions of dollars to rescue Jews from Russia, Bosnia, and Ethiopia. Go to my webpage: http://www.aaronakaplan.com and go to track #12 of "The Music of Aaron A. Kaplan". God bless. Aaron A. Kaplan, composer

Posted by: aaron a kaplan on April 20, 2005 03:26 PM


9. Chris Moreland said:

RE:
MUSLIMS ARE SONS OF ABRAHAM. THEY HAVE RIGHT TO LIVE ON HOLLY LAND AS THEY ARE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD."Land of Israel belongs to the sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? YES> FOREVER.


Dear Sir --
"Muslims" are not all related to Abraham only those from the lineage of Ishmael. However the term Muslim refers specifically to those of whom follow the Teachings of Mohammad and the false Allah (god) of which are contrary to the Laws of the one true G-d of Avrham, Yitzak and Yaakov. However, we also must remember that G-d in the Torah does promise 12 Princes (GEN 17:20) to the decedents of Ishmael however I am sure these 12 princes will follow the the heart of G-d not a false religion. While I believe it is my duty to Love everyone however I must point out the one flaw in your statement.


Posted by: Chris Moreland on April 26, 2005 11:04 AM

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Greetings in Jesus Name,

Considering that the Lord's kingdom will be set up at His return and the children of God will have an eternal inheritance, I am wondering why it is that so many of the 'spiritually minded' (Yes! That is said tongue in cheek.) are so concerned about real estate for Jews within this present evil age.

Now what good will it do any Jew over in Israel to have a hundred acres or so of land; only to land in Hell at the end of it all, and so miss out on the fulfilment of the promise made to Abraham with regard to the Millennium and the blessedness ever thereafter? What shall it profit them to gain a part of the world and lose their own souls?

Why is it that some Christians are so concerned about dirt and especially as relates to the Jews? What does real estate within this evil age have to do with the spiritual redemption of Jews? I don't recall Paul having preached that message, and so I wonder why believers in this day somehow think that such has something to do with the Great Commission.

Besides that the 'man of sin' will end up holding the land in possession as he imposes his rule over the country of Israel at mid-week; and so it will end up under his control anyway for the last 3 1/2 years. Have Christians forgotten about that matter, and have they properly considered that any land the Jews acquire will be lost to them with regard to the end of this age?

Certainly appears like there is some very powerful political manipulation of Christians going on here by some very earthly minded people who really don't expect the Lord to return. Now how do you suppose they managed that? I suggest that believers focus on what the Lord actually commanded them to do, (Such as abide in Him.) and let Him look after the rest.

Maranatha

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Ec 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Ec 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked:

for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

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