Catholic Church in Revelation

[jchahl]

Singapore, like Vatican City, is also a city that is its own country.

[sarcrew]

And Singapore represents the people that live there. Does Vatican City? Vatican City represents the Catholic church. If you don't believe that - well I'll let it go.

Wayne

[jchahl]

Reaslistically, yes, they represent the Catholic Church. Technically, they represent their country.

[qwerty guy]

edited to add - Name me another religion with a UN representative! :puzzled:

This is the whole point. There is no "religion" representative in the UN.... There is the representative of the COUNTRY of vatican city!

Of course it's all about catholics, but what about Iran, lead by a religious sect leader... they have a representative in the UN also, does this mean the Muslim religion is in the UN?

EXAMPLE:
Salt lake city is part of the United states of America. The USA has a UN representative, but the Mormons do not, nor does Salt Lake City because it is not a country
Salt lake city, breaks away from the USA, becoming it's own sovereign nation, free of the laws and government of the USA.
As it's own nation, Salt Lake City now gets to have a representitive in the UN... Now everyone says the Mormons get a representitive in the UN.

The UN allows representatives from any nation. The catholics just happen to have their own nation.

You don't seem to be grasping something so very simple, hanging onto some conspiracy like view. If you get your own country, doesn't matter if it's 2' wide by 4'deep, you get representation in the UN. This is the reason Vatican City has a representative, not because it's the Catholics, because it's a free nation.

YES, you CAN be a citizen of Vatican City, and some countries that fight against the catholic church being in their countries, point to the sovereignty of Vatican city as a reason to charge people in their nation with treason for joining a catholic church, saying that they are joining another nation.

If Vatican City was part of Italy, there would be no UN representative
If Vatican City was Mormon, it would still have it's own UN representative
If Vatican City was atheist, it would still have it's own UN representative.

This is no special treatment because they are Catholic, it's treating Vatican city like any other country, which it IS. Officially it's government is listed as Fundamentalist; A government ruled over by religious leaders.

[sarcrew]

Reaslistically' date=' yes, they represent the Catholic Church.[/u'] Technically, they represent their country.

Thank you jchahl, at least you understand the point I was making. I guess some people would rather argue semantics than see reality.

Wayne

[qwerty guy]

The reality of what you're saying is mis-representing why the Catholic church is in the UN.

You act like it doesn't matter that they own their own country, and that some evil conspiracy of the world's governments allows a religious leader to have a seat in the UN.

The evil conspiracy has been the political moves of the catholic church through the centuries, to position themselves to become a sovereign nation, thus having all legal right under the laws of the UN to have a seat there.

No special treatment was given them by the UN because they are "catholics". The special treatment was given almost 100 years ago by Italy, and Italy alone, who allowed Vatican City to succeed and become it's own nation. This was done for the original "league of nations".

If your church can convince some country to give you a small plot of land to become your own country, you also can have a seat in the UN.

[sarcrew]

The reality of what you're saying is mis-representing why the Catholic church is in the UN.

qwerty, they are there. Period. That is the point. Read and respond to what I write if you want to direct your comments to me. I have said nothing about "why" they are there!

You act like it doesn't matter that they own their own country, and that some evil conspiracy of the world's governments allows a religious leader to have a seat in the UN.

I have said nothing about a conspiracy yet this is the second time you have. What is YOUR issue? Furthermore that which is not of Christ IS evil!

The evil conspiracy has been the political moves of the catholic church through the centuries, to position themselves to become a sovereign nation, thus having all legal right under the laws of the UN to have a seat there.

Again with the conspiracy. Are you familiar with the concept called "Satan"! A conspiracy is by nature hidden - the RCC is not now, nor has it ever, hid it's thirst for worldly power. Enough with the conspiracy stuff already.

No special treatment was given them by the UN because they are "catholics". The special treatment was given almost 100 years ago by Italy, and Italy alone, who allowed Vatican City to succeed and become it's own nation. This was done for the original "league of nations".

This may surprise you but the UN does pick and chose who they recognize - whether a nation or not. Just as every other country does. Take some courses in Int'l Relations. Giving Vatican City recognition as a nation was and is "special treatment". Are you even aware who forms the "Popes" bodyguard cadre. I'll give you a hint - they are not Vaticans!

If your church can convince some country to give you a small plot of land to become your own country, you also can have a seat in the UN.

Hmmm . . . is that why Isreal was given a seat so quickly?
NOTE 1:
"Israel is the only UN member not permitted to stand for election to the full range of UN bodies. So while membership of the UN Human Rights Commission now includes Cuba, Libya, Sudan and Syria -- four of the seven states designated as state sponsors of international terrorism by the U.S. State Department -- Israel cannot even be a candidate."

- Anne Bayefsky, The Globe and Mail
April 26, 2002

NOTE 2:
A breakthrough in Israel?s fifty-year exclusion from UN bodies occurred on May 30, 2000, when Israel accepted an invitation to become a temporary member of the Western European and Others (WEOG) regional group. While only temporary, this historic step could finally end the UN?s discrimination against Israel and open the door to Israeli participation in the Security Council.

Israel has been the only UN member excluded from a regional group. Geographically, it belongs in the Asian Group; however, the Arab states have barred its membership. Without membership in a regional group, Israel cannot sit on the Security Council or other key UN bodies.

Also, consider your stressing on Vatican City being recognized because it is a nation:

In 1988, the PLO's status was upgraded when the General Assembly designated the PLO as ? Palestine.? Ten years later, the General Assembly voted to give the Palestinians a unique status as a non-voting member of the 185 member Assembly. The vote in favor was overwhelming, 124 in favor and 4 against with 10 abstentions. The countries opposing the resolution were Israel, the United States, Micronesia and the Marshall Islands.

Where's the "Nation" being represented here?
PS - Please read the date in the paragraph above. You shouldn't need any courses to get the point.

qwerty, end of lesson.

Wayne

[qwerty guy]

What is YOUR issue?

My issue is this: You said "did you know the catholics have a seat in the UN?"

I pointed out that Vatican City is a sovereign nation, not just a religion.

You seemed to argue that the fact they are their own country has nothing to do with it. Actually, you argued that they are a CITY, part of ITALY, showing that you had no idea about this fact.

My issue is that if you want to exaggerate a situation, mis-represent it, then expect people to either put on tin foil hats when they follow you, or find you a bit nutty when they look into it and realize that Vatican City is it's own nation.

The truth that the Vatican pulled political maneuvers almost 100 years ago with Italy, so they could have a seat in the UN, shows the evil of the RCC just fine, there is no reason to exaggerate the matter.

And Israel is in the UN, and has been, they just have limited power because they are surrounded by countries that pull legal maneuvers every time they try to classify what region of the world Israel is in. So although Israel has a seat in the general UN assembly, they as yet cannot sit on any special councils, because these councils have rules and quotas to include member nations in numbers from different regions of the world. Without a regional classification, Israel cannot be placed on any special council, or the regional quota for who sits on what council could not be met.

qwerty' date=' end of lesson.[/quote']

I don't think on this type of topic, anyone would ever get the full lesson from you bro, you seem bent on ... oh no... I'm going to say it... conspiracies! :Green You don't have to give half truths and stuff to show people evil... Nothing we've talked about is hid, and you can expose evil for what it does, not try to make some wow factor. If I explained to someone that Israel cannot sit on any special council or special assembly because they do not belong to a world region, for the simple fact that there is a loop hole that allows other countries in opposition to Israel to stall and muck up this process, what's the problem with the truth?

I do my best to avoid misleading people by not stating facts and instead teaching them "my impression"

[Jerry]

2 Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God' date=' or that is worshipped; so that he as God [b']sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Do you think that the phrase "the temple of God" can refer to the church? (1Cor.3:16,17; 2 Cor.6:16; Eph.2:21; Rev.3:12), rather than the literal temple in Jerusalem? As in the antichrist being the head of an apostate church? Thanks in advance!

I believe it is referring to the literal temple - specifically the holy of holies (as that is what the word naos means, the inner sanctuary) - because it is a fulfillment of these verses:

Daniel 9:26-27 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

There must be a real temple in order for the Jews to offer sacrifices and oblations in it.

[RandyW]

Hi everyone

I need some solid proof that it is the Catholic church that is going to be the one world church in revelation. I believe that it is, but people have been challenging me, and one person who is IFB is convinced that it is talking of the Muslims not Catholics.

Katy-Anne

The "catholic body of believers will be part of the christian body" . Catholics today have nothing to do with how that denomination was set up. I suggest you go to a catholic service and when you see and hear the singing praises to God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ you might just sink in your chair. There will be bad apples and true believers in that denomination as going to church doesn't make you a christian.

Randy

[Will]

The "catholic body of believers will be part of the christian body" . Catholics today have nothing to do with how that denomination was set up. I suggest you go to a catholic service and when you see and hear the singing praises to God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ you might just sink in your chair. There will be bad apples and true believers in that denomination as going to church doesn't make you a christian.

Randy

The Catholic Institution is full of bad apples. It's an apostate religion. There may be some Christians in there, but that's because they haven't learned yet.

[Jerry]

And to add to Will's post: there may be some ignorant Christians who do not know enough Bible yet to see how the Catholic church contradicts it - BUT they certainly never got saved THROUGH the Catholic church. My Mom got saved indirectly as a result of me and my sister witnessing to her - then God opened her eyes to the Gospel as she was reading the Bible - but she never got fully grounded. She got cancer and attended church very infrequently after that point inbetween her hospital visits. So she got saved outside the Catholic church but still never renounced Catholicism officially before she died. But she is the exception, not the rule. The Catholic church is the world's largest false religion - the devil's cheap imitation of true Christianity.

[Jerry]

These two articles will help answer any sincere questions and show how Rome fits the description in Revelation 17:

A City On Seven Hills - by Dave Hunt

Rome And The Harlot Of Revelation 17

[pneu-engine]

These two articles will help answer any sincere questions and show how Rome fits the description in Revelation 17:

A City On Seven Hills - by Dave Hunt

Rome And The Harlot Of Revelation 17

Add to that::::

A Woman Rides the Beast, by Dave Hunt.

[Jerry]

The first link above is actually one of the chapters from that book - David Cloud has several chapters of his book on his website.