Biblical fiat

[IM4given]

SIN, n.

1. The voluntary departure of a moral agent from a known rule of rectitude or duty, prescribed by God; any voluntary transgression of the divine law, or violation of a divine command; a wicked act; iniquity. Sin is either a positive act in which a known divine law is violated, or it is the voluntary neglect to obey a positive divine command, or a rule of duty clearly implied in such command. Sin comprehends not action only, but neglect of known duty, all evil thoughts purposes, words and desires, whatever is contrary to God's commands or law. 1 John 3. Matt. 15. James 4. Sinner neither enjoy the pleasures of nor the peace of piety. Among divines, sin is original or actual. Actual sin, above defined, is the act of a moral agent in violating a known rule of duty. Original sin, as generally understood, is native depravity of heart to the divine will, that corruption of nature of deterioration of the moral character of man, which is supposed to be the effect of Adam's apostasy; and which manifests itself in moral agents by positive act of disobedience to the divine will, or by the voluntary neglect to comply with the express commands of God, which require that we should love God with all the heart and soul and strength and mind, and our neighbor as ourselves. This native depravity or alienation of affections from God and his law, is supposed to be what the apostle calls the carnal mind or mindedness, which is enmity against God, and is therefore denominated sin or sinfulness. Unpardonable sin, or blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, is supposed to be a malicious and obstinate rejection of Christ and the gospel plan of salvation, or a contemptuous resistance made to the influences and convictions of the Holy Spirit. Matt.12.

2. A sin-offering; an offering made to atone for sin. He hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin. 2 Cor 5.

3. A man enormously wicked. Not in use.

4. Sin differs from crime, not in nature, but in application. That which is a crime against society, is sin against God.

ABOMINA'TION, n.

1. Extreme hatred; detestation.

2. The object of detestation, a common signification in scripture.

The way of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord. Prov.xv.

3. Hence, defilement, pollution, in a physical sense, or evil doctrines and practices, which are moral defilements, idols and idolatry, are called abominations. The Jews were an abomination to the Egyptians; and the sacred animals of the Egyptians were an abomination to the Jews. The Roman army is called the abomination of desolation. Mat. 24:13. In short, whatever is an object of extreme hatred, is called an abomination.

Definition from Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language, 1828.
Previous word: abominate. Next word: abortive.

[Jerry]

I was referring to the Assyrian and the Babylonian captivities.

[IM4given]

:puzzled: Scriptural reference please? :puzzled:

[Jerry]

Scriptural reference for these captivities - or references for why they happened?

I am assuming you mean the second:

2 Kings 21:11-15 Because Manasseh king of Judah hath done these abominations, and hath done wickedly above all that the Amorites did, which were before him, and hath made Judah also to sin with his idols: Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle. And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down. And I will forsake the remnant of mine inheritance, and deliver them into the hand of their enemies; and they shall become a prey and a spoil to all their enemies; Because they have done that which was evil in my sight, and have provoked me to anger, since the day their fathers came forth out of Egypt, even unto this day.

Leviticus 18:24-29 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;) That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

Ezekiel 6:8-11 Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries. And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations. And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them. Thus saith the Lord GOD; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.

[IM4given]

So you are saying these things will cause greater punishment, because they are considered abominations instead of just plain old ordinary sin? Will they have a greater punishment in Hell or will they be deported or both? :puzzled:

Exodus 8:26 And Moses said, It is not meet so to do; for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians to the LORD our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us?

Deuteronomy 7:25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God.

Deuteronomy 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Deuteronomy 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Psalms 6:16-19
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 3:32 For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.

Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Proverbs 11:20 They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.

Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Proverbs 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 15:26 The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.

Proverbs 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Proverbs 20:10 Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD.

[Jerry]

So you are saying these things will cause greater punishment' date=' because they are considered abominations instead of just plain old ordinary sin? Will they have a greater punishment in Hell or will they be deported or both?[/quote']

I am saying that it was for abominations that God carried Israel captive and deported them to foreign lands. He didn't deport them because they lied or stole or didn't honour their parents, but because of all their abominations.

Greater consequences when an abomination is committed. All sin is sin, not all sin is the same or offends God to the same extent. God is against fornication, but He considers adultery an abomination. He will chastise a believer for fornication - He will bring greater chastisement upon an adulterer. Backsliding is bad (ie. taking your eyes off of the Lord) - but idolatry is an abomination and will bring God's judgment.

[IM4given]

God is against fornication' date=' but He considers adultery an abomination. He will chastise a believer for fornication - He will bring greater chastisement upon an adulterer. Backsliding is bad (ie. taking your eyes off of the Lord) - but idolatry is an abomination and will bring God's judgment.[/quote']

Okay please understand that I am not trying to be difficult about this, but where in the Bible does it say that adultery is an abomination but fornication is not?

Doesn't Jesus say in Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So does that mean that looking at a woman with lust is an abomination, too? Then how does acting on that lust - ie fornication - differ from committing the act of adultery?

I think that sin in a persons heart is a verb - a mindful thought that causes a person to act upon that thought in a way that is contrary to what God's will for us might be. There aren't any big or little sins, because it is all ugliness in God's sight.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[Jerry]

Obviously, you're determined to believe what you want to believe - so my continued posting is not doing anything. I have showed verses where differences of judgment and punishment are expressed, showed verses where God considers some sins abominations - He does not consider ALL sins abominations, so there are differences just in that alone.

All sin is against God - but the Scriptures do not teach all sin is the same, nor that all sin brings the same consequences.

[kevinmiller]

I just wanted to interject one verse:
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If you've sinned, you've violated the whole law. Therefore, if you have taken God's name in vain, then you're equivalent to one who has committed fornication, or sodomy. Remember, the verses you are posting on sins that are abominations are from the OT when they were still under the law. We are not under the law here in James in the NT where sin is equally offensive as we have broken the whole law and must equally repent of our sins.

[IM4given]

I just wanted to interject one verse:
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If you've sinned, you've violated the whole law. Therefore, if you have taken God's name in vain, then you're equivalent to one who has committed fornication, or sodomy. Remember, the verses you are posting on sins that are abominations are from the OT when they were still under the law. We are not under the law here in James in the NT where sin is equally offensive as we have broken the whole law and must equally repent of our sins.

Thank you kevin - you said in one paragraph what I have been trying to say in the past several pages! I give your post a 10+ !

[kevinmiller]

Wow, too bad that point system isn't up and running yet! lol

[JerryNumbers]

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You are partly right, but partly wrong.

But as yuo imply, all it takes is one sin to condemn a person to hell, all one has to do is break one of the laws, and for that they are condemned to hell.

But thanks be to Jesus Christ for dying upon the cross for our sin, if we will seek Him, repent and seek forgiveness we can be forgiven and have the gift of eternal life in heaven.

But the sin of telling a little white lie does not have the same consequence as murder.

If all sin was the same, then there would not be a sin unto death, John 5:16.

And if all sin was the same there would be but one punishment for all sin.

But of course the worse sin one can commit is refusing Jesus Christ as their Savior, its unforgivable.

As as i showed earlier, many Christians will lose rewards because of disobedience which is sin, and lack of service to our Lord and Savior.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Cor 3:11-15 (KJV)

Some like to say that everyone who enters heaven will be equal and or receive the same rewards, that is not true. Some will have only their bare salvation they will be saved; yet so as by fire.

But as I said earlier, the one who loses the most at Christ Judgment Seat, commonly called The Bema Judgment of the saints do not lose their salvation.

Those who enter hell, they will be judged according to their works.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:11-15 (KJV)

And punishment will fit what they did.

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Luke 12:47-48 (KJV)

I feel sure everyone of us have know lost people who probably lived much more moral life that some believers, some even thinking that their good life will make them fit for heaven.

It seems clear to me the murdered, adultery, fornicator, thiefs and such will receive more punishment than the people who live a good moral life.

But all of them will suffer in the lake of fire forever because they have not the Savior.

No one will be able to claim that Christ the perfect Judge did not hand out to them more nor less than they deserved.

[IM4given]

Without a doubt, this is one of the best threads we have ever had at Online Baptist!!!

I still do not understand the whole concept of degrees of Heaven and degrees of Hell - I have heard it explained that one might have a "One-room Mansion" in Heaven as compared to someone who might have a "Many-room Mansion" in Heaven. As for punishments are sinners beaten with stripes after they are judged, but BEFORE they are cast into Hell ? - I don't know, but Praise the Lord I will not have to ever find out!

What I am concerned about are those who are lost in my family, in my community. Those who are following after false apostate preachers who are being prevented from entering the kingdom because they fail to listen to the one true gospel. The true gospel is not as fun as the other gospels being preached today. They have stricken the word Hell from their vocabulary. They have edited it from their overhead projection screens. I don't think anyone has ever told them the truth about Hell. They do not want to hear about Hell. They think that telling them about Hell is just some sort of scare tactic to get them to see the light of salvation. If they do not acknowledge its existence, then it does not exist, does it? They scoff at the "Hell Hoax" - the last time I checked on Snopes.com, it is no hoax! It is scripture and is in the Bible just as much as Heaven is.

My former co-workers laugh and joke about Hell. I feel very saddened for them, because it is not going to be the wild, raucous, hedonistic party that think it is going to be. There won't be sex, drugs, and alcohol served to the party-goers either. They will burn forever and never die. They will scream in torment, but will never be heard.

I think that the promise of Hell ought to be as much a part of any persons witnessing tool as the promise of Heaven.

[John81]

I agree Janet, a very interesting thread.

[Jerry]

As for punishments are sinners beaten with stripes after they are judged, but BEFORE they are cast into Hell ? - I don't know, but Praise the Lord I will not have to ever find out!

As far as that goes, I don't know either. I always assumed it meant when they are IN HELL, but perhaps it could mean after they are sentenced at the Great White Throne judgment but before they are tossed into Hell (ie. the Lake of fire). Though, what I have been trying to emphasize is that there will be differences in the amount of stripes, as the passage bears out. (Earlier in the thread, I thought you were trying to indicate these stripes would be given in this life, before they died, and that doesn't fit the passage - but I can see the stripes being given before being cast into the Lake of fire.)