Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Bryon

The Last Trump

Recommended Posts

From Revelations 4:1 to Revelations 19:11 the church is not mentioned. Why? Because its in heaven, not on earth.

Jesus came in the air, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 4:18 and took it off the face of the earth up into heaven.

Surely, if Jesus' Church, as important as it is, was on this earth during that time it would have been mentioned.

No, Jesus' Church will not go thru the tribulations. But there will be people saved during that time, because of the stand they make for Jesus they will be murdered by the anti-christ.



The church is the body of Christ

Non of the below verses speak of the timing of the Lords return. They do speak of saints in the tribulation period.


Rev 12
17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring?those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13
7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

10If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity he will go.
If anyone is to be killed[c] with the sword,
with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



The church is the body of Christ

Non of the below verses speak of the timing of the Lords return. They do speak of saints in the tribulation period.


Rev 12
17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring?those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13
7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

10If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity he will go.
If anyone is to be killed[c] with the sword,
with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.


Those who come to Christ during the Tribulation are the saints referred to here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wrong, I humbly disagree, the saint will not go thru the tribulation period.

Reason, Jesus Chruch, the Holy Spirit, has to be taken out of the way before th Wicked on is revealed, when it is taken out of this world, all the saints will go with it.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2 Thess 2:7-8 (KJV)


From Revelations 4:1 to Revelations 19:11 the church is not mentioned. Why? Because its in heaven, not on earth.

Jesus came in the air, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 4:18 and took it off the face of the earth up into heaven.

Surely, if Jesus' Church, as important as it is, was on this earth during that time it would have been mentioned.

No, Jesus' Church will not go thru the tribulations. But there will be people saved during that time, because of the stand they make for Jesus they will be murdered by the anti-christ.


What exactly is going to Convict them and save them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Those who come to Christ during the Tribulation are the saints referred to here.


The scripture doesn't state or imply "recently saved saints from Judaism". The scripture states "saints"

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


There are "TWO STICKS" in scripture, the "House of Joseph/Ephraim" (Church) and the "House of Judah" (Israel)

These "two sticks" aren't "jointed together" until the "CANA MARRIAGE" during the "Seventh day" or Mill Reign, that takes place here on earth after Jesus returns.

The "lamb's marriage" takes place in heaven during the trib.

Da 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

As the "MOTHER" of the "MAN CHILD", Israel can't "MARRY HER SON", they must become "NEW CREATURES", "BORN AGAIN" "DEAD TO THE LAW", before they can be the "BRIDE OF CHRIST".

Ro 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead,

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Satan/AC are used as a "ROD" to chastise Israel.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

You're not going to understand the Rapture until you first understand the purpose of the "tribulations", then you'll understand why the church is raptured "BEFORE" it starts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand my scriptures. Can you show us where this rapture is apart from the ressurrection? You continue to take those scriptures to build some prerapture that Jesus never taught.
Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand my scriptures. Can you show us where this rapture is apart from the ressurrection? You continue to take those scriptures to build some prerapture that Jesus never taught.
Randy



First, your interpretion of "Resurrection" is wrong, the Rapture occurs "PRE" trib, the "FIRST" (not second) Resurrection occurs "POST" trib.

Resurrection as used by scripture means to be "BACK ON EARTH, ALIVE", it has nothing to do with the Rapture, they go directly to heaven, not back on the earth, alive.

All "deceased righteous souls" return with Jesus, no "righteous souls" are still in the grave when he returns, only the unsaved, which will remain there, so no souls are "Resurrected" (as you interpreted it) from the grave in the "FIRST RESURRECTION".

Those OT saints Jesus took to heaven when he ascended, the rapture church, both dead/living, saints killed during the trib and under the altar, all return with Jesus, the only righteous left on earth are those who physically survive the trib. the "WHEAT" the angels gather into his barn.

Actually, in the "First resurrection", no body comes out of the grave, those saved return with Jesus, those unsaved stay in the grave until the GWT,

so you see, a "Rapture" and "Resurrection" are two different things, at two different times, they are even spelled different. :lol :hide

Israel enter the trib as "Chastisement" from "God's "ROD", (AC/Satan) for rejecting Jesus.

2Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, (AC/Satan) and with the stripes of the children of men: (wicked people)

Jesus has already suffer the "Stripes" in his flesh for believers, and Israel will suffer "STRIPES" in their flesh from God's "ROD", the AC/satan.

Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

The church "Spiritually"..."Drinks of Jesus cup" when we "Crucify the old man to destroy the "body of sin",

as Chastisment, Israel will "Literally"...Drink of Jesus's cup", by having to literally die to crucifying the old body of sin", if they want to be saved.

This is the "STRIPES" in their "Flesh".

God's "Rod/Staff" are comfort to the church, but "GREAT TRIBULATION" to Israel.

Ps 23:4 thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

Have to run. Later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The gathering of those that belong to Jesus on the last day is the same as Paul taught that there would be some left alive on that day. Jesus taught that as well but after the distress of those days. Jesus never taught of a pregathering before the distress of those days and a 3rd coming after the distress of those days. He taught of His return like a thief in the night. see Rev 16:15 15"Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." The timing of His return in rev 16 is consistent with Matt 24.

24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." What is stated about the last day? see Zach 14

On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime?a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, [c] in summer and in winter.

9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name


As Jesus taught:
Matt 24
"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nice try' date=' but the scripture clearly states the dead in Christ [u']Rise First. That is the 1st ressurection not a joy ride.
Randy



Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second (resurrection) death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

According to the scriptures, when Jesus returns is the "FIRST" resurrection.

The "Second resurrection" is when the unsaved are resurrected at the GW Throne.

Re 20:11 And I saw a great white throne,

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I don't find "Resurrection" mentioned anywhere in relation to the "Rapture".

The "Location" of all "resurrected people" in scripture is "back on the earth", not in "heaven".

I know "resurrection" is use by many to describe the rapture, but as you've demonstrated, it can/does cause confusion by not knowing the proper definition to differentiate between the two separate events.

Personally, I don't have any objections as long as the differences are understood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The gathering of those that belong to Jesus on the last day is the same as Paul taught that there would be some left alive on that day. Jesus taught that as well but after the distress of those days. Jesus never taught of a pregathering before the distress of those days and a 3rd coming after the distress of those days. He taught of His return like a thief in the night. see Rev 16:15 15"Behold' date=' [u']I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." The timing of His return in rev 16 is consistent with Matt 24.

24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." What is stated about the last day? see Zach 14

On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime?a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, [c] in summer and in winter.

9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name


As Jesus taught:
Matt 24
"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


Randy


The "Rapture" wasn't revealed until "YEARS" after Martha/Jesus had their conversation, neither Martha, or anyone else, knew of the rapture until Paul revealed it later.

What Martha said was true, for what she knew, at the time, but she didn't know everything, when you reveals a "Rapture" before the "last day", it changes everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Even Job knew that his body would resurrected from the grave and he would see God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second (resurrection) death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

According to the scriptures, when Jesus returns is the "FIRST" resurrection.

The "Second resurrection" is when the unsaved are resurrected at the GW Throne.

Re 20:11 And I saw a great white throne,

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I don't find "Resurrection" mentioned anywhere in relation to the "Rapture".

The "Location" of all "resurrected people" in scripture is "back on the earth", not in "heaven".

I know "resurrection" is use by many to describe the rapture, but as you've demonstrated, it can/does cause confusion by not knowing the proper definition to differentiate between the two separate events.

Personally, I don't have any objections as long as the differences are understood.


At the return of the Lord He will bring back with Him those that have died in Him . (The dead in Christ rise first) Then those that are alive on earth at His return are caught up to meet Him in the air. Just as Jesus stated after the distress of those days He will send out His angels to gather His elect. That is the 2nd coming and the last day. The day of the 1st ress. as you just noted. Then 1000 years begins as was testified in the book of revelation. I would assume those not taken on that last day are still mortal and the door is shut.

About those who belong to the Lord in that 1000 year period before the great throne judgment:

26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations?
27'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery'? just as I have received authority from my Father. 28I will also give him the morning star. 29He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Even Job knew that his body would resurrected from the grave and he would see God.


I am not sure of the context here. Jesus never taught about a pregathering of saints prior to the 2nd coming. I would think you would put your trust in His testimony.

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Point is even, Job knew there would be a resurrection of the saints and that he would see God in his flesh.

It was not a New Testament new revelation that the children of God's would be raised from the grave and live again in Heaven. Even Job knew that fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Point is even, Job knew there would be a resurrection of the saints and that he would see God in his flesh.

It was not a New Testament new revelation that the children of God's would be raised from the grave and live again in Heaven. Even Job knew that fact.

AMEN!

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

What a wonderful and awesome promise we have!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The scripture doesn't state those gathered into the air are going back to heaven. The scripture states we will be with the Lord. The dead in Christ coming back with the Lord and the gathering of those left alive at that return is a teaching that is consistent with the teaching of the Son of God. I don't find Pauls teaching in conflict with the Lords.
Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The scripture doesn't state those gathered into the air are going back to heaven. The scripture states we will be with the Lord. The dead in Christ coming back with the Lord and the gathering of those left alive at that return is a teaching that is consistent with the teaching of the Son of God. I don't find Pauls teaching in conflict with the Lords.
Randy


Get real, please read the verse.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thess 4:17 (KJV)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a list of reasons why we believe in the Rapture of the Church in the articles section of OB. I'll see if it is still there.

This book by Renald Showers is also a good study if one is unsure or mistaken about the Rapture vs. the 2nd Coming.

http://www.amazon.com/Maranatha-Our-Lor ... 75-7831167

If you don't want to buy the book, go to http://www.bbnbi.org to hear Dr. Showers' 6 messages on prophecy. The link is for the Bible Broadcasting Network's Bible Institute. To hear the messages, sign up as a student (its FREE!), click on "Browse Courses" at the top, select "Bible Doctrines" and then scroll down until you find "Doctrine of Future Events" by Renald Showers. There are 6 sermons. The 2nd and 3rd sermons deal with the Rapture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The meat of this article was first posted by OB member Calvary quite awhile ago. I compiled the info, added verses and edited the content into the article below. Dr. Showers' sermon on the Rapture is excellent and brings out even more details as to how the 2nd Coming and Rapture are different and proves it from the Bible. I encourage everyone to hear his sermon at bbnbi. I might just have to add his reasons to this list! :thumb

Why I Believe In A Pre-Tribulation Rapture

In order to understand the Tribulation, one must understand the role of the Church, the role of Israel and the actual purpose of the Tribulation period. In order to interpret the Bible correctly, one must remember that Israel and the Church are totally different with different covenants, laws and outcome. One must also interpret the Bible literally and in context.

1. The Tribulation is ?the time of Jacob?s trouble?. This is a reference to Israel, not the church.

2. The Tribulation is also referred to by Bible scholars as ?The 70th week of Daniel?. 69 weeks were fulfilled when Christ died on the cross. The church is an interlude. The 70th week will be fulfilled during the Tribulation. Notice verse 24 states that this is determined specifically upon the Jews and Jerusalem, not the Church. Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.[/list:u] 3. Men will be judged regarding the Sabbath in the Tribulation. (Matthew 24:20,21). The Sabbath has no bearing upon any Christian (Colossians 2:16). Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[/list:u] 4. In chapters 1, 2 and 3 of Revelation we read of the activity of the local churches. Chapter 4 begins with a call, Come up hither (4:1). This call matches the detailed promise of the Lord?s call and the church?s departure found in 1 Thessalonians 4. Please note that it speaks of those ?in Christ?. This is a reference to the Church. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.[/list:u] 5. God promises true believers that He will keep them from the "hour of temptation which shall come on all the world". Revelation 3:10 6. Following this call John finds himself instantly before the throne in heaven. The church on earth is not mentioned again in the book of Revelation. 7. As noted, the call to come up hither is prior to the whole of the time of Jacob?s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7; Daniel 9:24-27). 8. The activity around the throne helps us understand several things about the 24 elders in Revelation 4:4-5:14. b. We never read of angels sitting upon thrones or wearing crowns. So this company in heaven cannot be angels. c. The Christian, however, is promised crowns.[/list:u] II Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. I Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.[/list:u] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,[/list:u] I Corinthians 3:11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.[/list:u] Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;[/list:u] 9. Before the antichrist goes forth (Revelation 6:2), the Body of Christ, which now restrains the influence of Satan by the Spirit of God indwelling them, will be taken out. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.[/list:u] 10. The Lord Jesus Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against his church. Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.[/list:u] 11. The great tribulation period is a time of wrath (Revelation 6:16,17; Zephaniah 1:14-18). The church age saints are given the exceeding great and precious promise that we are not appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation from the time of wrath (I Thessalonians 1:10; 5:9). The church is clearly not free from the wrath of man, but the wrath of God cannot be theirs. They have forgiveness, not condemnation. Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, Zephaniah 1:16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. Zephaniah 1:17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Zephaniah 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land. I Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,[/list:u] 12. The Christians in Colossae had the promise that they were to be presented holy and unblameable and unreprovable in his sight. This sanctification is said to be extended to those called to be saints, with ALL that in EVERY PLACE call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Corinthians 1:2) The idea that ?good? Christians are raptured while ?bad? Christians are left to endure the tribulation is not only a heresy, but presents the tribulation period as sort of purgatory for the Christian, but Hebrews makes it clear that our sins were purged by the blood of the Lamb. (Hebrews 1:3). 1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;[/list:u] 13. The blessed hope of all dead and living saints is to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ? see above), not to endure without taking a mark or to survive until the Lord?s coming to earth. The tribulation is not a blessed hope. It does not promote looking for the Lord from heaven but rather for a sign on earth. Those who teach that all or part of the time of Jacob?s trouble will be experienced by the church are but one more group attempting to break down the walls of distinction between the church and Israel. 14. II Thessalonians 2 details the coming antichrist and the perilous times of his power. In verse 2 of that chapter we learn that this information should not trouble the child of God. It would be very troubling were we going to be present to experience it. 15. Not one time is the Tribulation period mentioned by the Apostle Paul in the epistles that govern the lives of those who make up the church. We are told of chastening from God (1 Corinthians 11) but never of the condemnations of the world. 16. Enoch, who is a picture of the church, was taken out (and did not see death) before the wrath of God upon the world via the flood. 17. Lot is an exemplary case to prove that God will not destroy the righteous with the wicked (Genesis 18), though their righteousness is apparent to no one (2 Peter 2:6-9). 2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 2 Peter 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:[/list:u] Compiled

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.[/list:u]



Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.









Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:







1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.













Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.[/list:u]







  • a. The title elder is never given to an angel.



I Corinthians 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.







  • d. John told his fellow brethren that God has made them kings and priests (Revelation 1:6) and that those who suffered with him would reign with him.[/list:u]

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[/list:u]

  • e. That these are born again believers is evident from the fact that they are redeemed by the blood of Christ ALONE. [/list:u]

Revelation 5:9,10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;





  • f. The crowns are not earthly, for they belong to a heavenly people, and, thus, must have been received at the Judgment Seat of Christ. [/list:u]

II Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.











  • g. We also see in this company white raiment (4:4). This is the garment of a priest, yet no Levitical priest ever wore a crown or sat upon a throne, so these can neither be
OT saints. These are members of a royal priesthood which are regenerated by the Holy Spirit.[/list:u]

I Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:





II Thessalonians 2:6-7 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.





(Matthew 16:18). In Revelation 13:7 Satan overcomes the believers of that time and controls the world. The Lord Jesus cannot lie, so obviously the church is gone.







Revelations 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:



















Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:









2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.[/list:u]







2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;







Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is a list of reasons why we believe in the Rapture of the Church in the articles section of OB. I'll see if it is still there.

This book by Renald Showers is also a good study if one is unsure or mistaken about the Rapture vs. the 2nd Coming.

http://www.amazon.com/Maranatha-Our-Lor ... 75-7831167

If you don't want to buy the book, go to http://www.bbnbi.org to hear Dr. Showers' 6 messages on prophecy. The link is for the Bible Broadcasting Network's Bible Institute. To hear the messages, sign up as a student (its FREE!), click on "Browse Courses" at the top, select "Bible Doctrines" and then scroll down until you find "Doctrine of Future Events" by Renald Showers. There are 6 sermons.

I have a couple of books by Dr. Renald Showers: Maranatha Our Lord, Come!: A definition of the Rapture of the Church; and There Really Is A Difference: A comparison of Covenant and Dispensational Theology. Both are excellent. Also by Renald Showers, is an article comparing the Rapture of the Church to a Jewish wedding ceremony...it's called Behold! The Bridegroom Comes! That last article was written in the 70s for Israel My Glory magazine, a publication of Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry. I don't have the web page url, but I can look it up and post it.

Heres's the link to that article:

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/jewish_marriage_customs.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks be to God that we who are in Christ have;

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:13 (KJV)

that blessed hope and shall be taken out prior to the tribulations falling upon this earth and that anti-christ being revealed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Saved people are not appointed unto wrath. We will not go through the Trib.

Would you take your child out and kill them for wrong doing? or are they your child you love would die for and do anything to protect.

The wrath we deserve was nailed to the cross 2000 years ago. praise God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Get real, please read the verse.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thess 4:17 (KJV)


Yes just as I stated we will be with the Lord. The scripture made no statement about going back to heaven. Our place will be on the earth with Jesus as is stated elsewhere in regard to the 1st resurrection.
Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 34 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...