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2 Thessalonians 2:2-6?

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These verses always confuse me. Does anyone have any ideas to what these verses might be talking about?

2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5: Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6: And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

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I'm no prophecy expert, but I believe the "falling away" (Gr. apostasia) refers to the great apostasy which will precede the coming of the Antichrist. The antichrist will sit in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem claiming that he is God incarnate. Perhaps somebody else can expound on this. :smile

Love,
Madeline

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As I understand it, as Madeline pointed out, it points to a future time. He was exhorting them to stand fast in faith and not be concerned about rumors that Christ's coming was upon them. We have seen throughout history how many have "claimed" a date for the "Coming" and caused some to lose faith becasue the prediction was wrong. It is a warning to not let the predictions of man - "Let no man deceive you by any means:" - to discourage us. To stand fast, and know that "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,".

Wayne

Edited to add - Sorry, I was typing this when your last post was done so I didn't see it before posting this.

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He was telling them not to be led astray by false epistles from others that taught them false doctrine. Then he tells them the truth about the rapture and being caught up before the Antichrist comes on the scene.

The day of Christ is the same time period as the day of the Lord - starting with the rapture and going through the tribulation period. If you look at all the passages that refer to the day of Christ or day of Jesus Christ (and related terms), you will see they refer to various things the church will be involved in (and the day of the Lord refers to Israel and the world), such as the rapture, the marriage supper of the Lamb (if I remember correctly), the judgment seat of Christ.

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The Holy Sprit is God and therefore "Omnipresent," thus cannot literally be removed from the earth. It is the HS's power working within the body of believers (the salt of the earth - cf. Matt 5:13) which is removed.

Love,
Madeline

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The Holy Spirit can be removed the exact same way He came - and Jesus did say He will come; therefore it is not contradicting Scripture to say He will one day leave again with the church, which is His body. Obviously He will still be present on earth, but His purpose here and what He does during that time will be different.

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But Madeline, before Pentecost, the Spirit only came upon men. He did not dwell within men.

The Spirit did not dwell upon the earth until after Christ's ascension. The word in verse 7 for way is dealing with being removed from the midst of.

So, yes, the Holy Spirit will be taken.

Since men will be saved in the Tribulation, it may be the Spirit will function once more as He did in pre-Pentecost days.

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But Madeline, before Pentecost, the Spirit only came upon men. He did not dwell within men.

The Spirit did not dwell upon the earth until after Christ's ascension. The word in verse 7 for way is dealing with being removed from the midst of.

So, yes, the Holy Spirit will be taken.

Since men will be saved in the Tribulation, it may be the Spirit will function once more as He did in pre-Pentecost days.


Haven't had much time to study since I'm at work. But what does Pentecost have to do with 2 Thess. 2:6? The Holy Spirit NOW indwells all true believers and will be removed in the sense that the "body of believers" will be absent from the earth, not the Holy Spirit. You have your Greek mixed up. The Greek word "taken" in v. 7 is (ginomai) which is translated as "to cause to be or to come into existence." - certainly nothing to do with removal. The "he who now letteth will let" is the HS, and "until he be taken out of the way" refers to the Anitchrist coming into existence, not the removal of the HS. Out of the way (v.7) is the Greek word (mesos) which translates as "to come forth." I will be back later to examine my post for any errors, but I can assure you that you are incorrect with your view.

Love,
Madeline

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Haven't had much time to study since I'm at work. But what does Pentecost have to do with 2 Thess. 2:6? The Holy Spirit NOW indwells all true believers and will be removed in the sense that the "body of believers" will be absent from the earth, not the Holy Spirit. You have your Greek mixed up. The Greek word "taken" in v. 7 is (ginomai) which is translated as "to cause to be or to come into existence." - certainly nothing to do with removal. The "he who now letteth will let" is the HS, and "until he be taken out of the way" refers to the Anitchrist coming into existence, not the removal of the HS. Out of the way (v.7) is the Greek word (mesos) which translates as "to come forth." I will be back later to examine my post for any errors, but I can assure you that you are incorrect with your view.

Love,
Madeline


2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

until he be taken out of the way refers back to he who now letteth. The antichrist isn't going to be taken away at that point. He will just be coming on the scene. Verse 8 says that after he is taken out of the way the wicked will be revealed.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed...

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2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

until he be taken out of the way refers back to he who now letteth. The antichrist isn't going to be taken away at that point. He will just be coming on the scene. Verse 8 says that after he is taken out of the way the wicked will be revealed.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed...


Can an Omnipresent spirit be removed? Where would it go? Did you study the meaning behind the phrase "Ye know what withholdeth"? and how it is used in the context of that passage? What does the Pentecost have to do with the fact that this is a future reference concerning HS indwelled believers? Ok, now let's look at the plain context. Ye know what withholdeth literally means "restrains," the same word translated "letteth" in verse 7. The restrainer, who will restrain sin throughout the church age until "He be taken out of the way," that is, until His "restraining" influence is removed, not Him. This will occur at the rapture of thet church. The presence of the Holy Spirit in this world to some extent restrains evil. Often this is accomplished through the presence of Christians who are the "salt of the earth" (Matt. 5:13). At the rapture, when Christians are "removed" and the age of the Holy Spirit ceases, the restraining ministry will be "taken out of the way" during the Great Tribulation, not the Holy Spirit Himself. I'm in a rush...more later.

Love,
Madeline

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Let's not redefine the passage by changing the wording. It says:

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That makes it pretty plain that it is talking about the Holy Spirit as a person, not His influence.

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I know I will get accused of being a jerk again for this statement, but it needs to be said. This is a KJVonly website. We believe in the exact wording of the KJV and base all our doctrine upon it. If any interpretation must be made by changing the wording to suit a theory, then that theory is wrong. If the passage has to be changed to say what you are trying to say, then you are wrong.

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Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That makes it pretty plain that it is talking about the Holy Spirit as a person, not His influence.


:amen:

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This passage is one of the best passages of scripture in regards to a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church. The key is in verse 7. ?For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.? I do not need Greek to understand an English Bible. My bible says "taken" which means just that, the ?he? is referring to the one that now letteth, which is the one that is holding back the revealing of the ?Wicked? one in verse 8. The ?he? is either the Holy Spirit or the Church, either way, seeing that the Tribulation period is when God pours out His wrath on an unbelieving world, the church will not be here for ?1Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,? So, we can conclude that this passage states that there will come a day of apostasy before the anti-Christ is revealed but before that can happen the church must be raptured out of here ushering in the 7 years of tribulation.

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I do not need Greek to understand an English Bible.


:amen: to that too. I certainly don't mind the greek if it clarifies the english but sometimes I think we can go overboard. No point trying to clarify a clear passage. No offence though :frog Grace and peace...

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Can an Omnipresent spirit be removed? Where would it go?


Madeline, my point about Pentecost is simply, where was the Holy Spirit before? He could not come unless Christ ascended. He was not on the earth at that time. Now, there were cases when the Spirit of God came upon men, but He did not stay. He returned to heaven. So, the same once His presence is removed.

Isn't it possible that it will be the same during the tribulation?

We will be raptured because we have the seal of the Spirit upon us. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is our seal. He goes, we go. It is the presence of the Holy Spirit upon the earth now that hinders the work of Satan in placing anti-christ. Once the presence is gone, Satan will have free course.

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The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity. Plz correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I see:::::::::::::::

#1. He is omnipresent. Jesus is not; He is at the right hand of the Father. God the Father is not either; He is in Heaven.

#2. When people are getting saved/converted/born-again/etc. it is the Holy Spirit doing that work whether it be O.T. economy, N.T. economy, Tribulation, Millenium, or whatever.

#3. Where the influence of the Holy Spirit is, there He is also. He is inseparable from it.

#4. Since time began the H.S. has been holding Satan back, or witholding him from going too far, or having free ciourse. (((The trials of Job are a good example.)))

#5. During the Tribulation the H.S. will let Satan go much farther, but even then he (Satan) will not be allowed to wreak all the havoc he would like to. If he had unlimited, carte blanche, blank cheque authority to do as he pleased, there would be no living thing left on earth at all. God will shorten those days, else there would be no flesh left alive.

So then, He (the Holy Spirit) is still here on earth but just pulled back from withholding Satan from doing his nefarious deeds.

Comments, plz. :lol

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All three members of the Trinity are omnipresent. Obviously Jesus' body is in Heaven, but these verses indicates His omnipresence:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

His body was then on earth, but part of Him was still in Heaven.

These verses implies His omnipresence:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Psalm 139 deals with God being omnipresent.

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All three members of the Trinity are omnipresent. Obviously Jesus' body is in Heaven, but these verses indicates His omnipresence:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

His body was then on earth, but part of Him was still in Heaven.

These verses implies His omnipresence:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Psalm 139 deals with God being omnipresent.


Thanx for pointing that out, Jerry. It does make a whole lot more sense, too, the way you say it. :Green Especially so, since all three are one and inseparable, even though they are three distinct persons, with three different offices. I do know that the Trinity is so complex that the minute we think we have it all figured out, we've missed something. :lol

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Madeline, my point about Pentecost is simply, where was the Holy Spirit before? He could not come unless Christ ascended. He was not on the earth at that time. Now, there were cases when the Spirit of God came upon men, but He did not stay. He returned to heaven. So, the same once His presence is removed.

Isn't it possible that it will be the same during the tribulation?

We will be raptured because we have the seal of the Spirit upon us. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is our seal. He goes, we go. It is the presence of the Holy Spirit upon the earth now that hinders the work of Satan in placing anti-christ. Once the presence is gone, Satan will have free course.


His presenceis removed? God is OMNIPRESENT, and you should know that an Omnipresent being is present everywhere. "Omnipresence" and "presence removed" are complete contradictions. To state that the Holy Spirit would somehow absent from the earth would posit a contradiction concerning one of the immutable attributes of God. I don't know how much clearer I can get...it's common sense. This passage is speaking of the termination of the Spirit's present, special restraining ministry - not to His absence. He is omnipresent. Additionally, He continues to indwell believers, even during the Tribulation. The Greek phrase here "out of the way" does not necessitate a complete absence of His presence. Instead, it indicates that the Spirit, who often preforms the function of the invisible Restrainer, will allow behavior on earth during the Tribulation of a type and to a degree which He presently is not allowing. The HS can come and go a million time if He chooses, but His presence will remain.

Love,
Madeline

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