Baptism and Church Membership - A Gentleman's Debate

[JJJ4given]

So, then when they were going from house to house breaking bread, it was communion?

The scriptures is what clarifies that:

1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

[Madeline]

Communion is the celebration of the Lord's last supper which was, of course the Passover supper. Acts 3 is slightly after the feast of Pentecost which is 50 days after Passover. In short, the breaking of bread in Acts 3 has nothing to do with Passover, and therefore nothing to do with communion.

Love,
Madeline

[JerryNumbers]

This entry from the Way Of Life Encyclopedia might help answer some questions or give other passages to consider:

LORD'S SUPPER

The Lord's Supper is a memorial meal initiated by the Lord Jesus Christ on the eve of His passion, symbolizing His death and blood atonement for sin (Mt 26:26-28; Mr 14:22-24; Lu 22:19-21; Joh 13:1-38). The Apostle Paul plainly tells us that the Lords' Supper is a memorial ("this do in remembrance of me"-Lu 22:19; 1Co 11:24-25) and a picture ("ye do shew"-1Co 11:26). The Lord's Supper is to be practiced in the church (1Co 11:18,20,22,33-34). Each church, as the body of Christ (1Co 12:27), is to observe the Lord's Supper after the Scriptural order. The church is responsible to oversee every aspect of the work of God to maintain doctrinal and moral purity (1Co 5:11-13; 2Th 3:6; Tit 1:9-13; 3:10-11). We, therefore, do believe the church has both the authority and the responsibility to restrict the Lord's Table. Those who observe the Lord's Supper privately apart from the church are ignoring the Bible pattern.

Where Is the Lord's Supper to Be Practiced? The Lord's Supper is to be practiced in the church (1Co 11:18,20,22,33-34). Those who observe the Lord's Supper privately or in various settings apart from the church (conferences, radio, homes) are ignoring the Bible pattern.

The Four-fold Look of the Lord's Supper. (1) The backward look (1Co 11:24-25). The Lord's Supper causes the believer to look back to the cross of Christ, which is the source of his salvation. (2) The look around (1Co 11:25-26 "ye"; see also 1Co 10:16-17). When we take the Lord's Supper we should be reminded that we are part of a body, a family, of believers and that we are not merely individuals. (3) The forward look (1Co 11:26 "till he come"). The Lord's Supper causes us to look forward to the return of Christ and thus to be mindful that we need to be ready at all times for that great event. (4) The inward look (1Co 11:28-31). The Lord's Supper causes the believer to look within himself and to judge his spiritual condition before the Lord.

How Often Is the Lord's Supper to Be Observed? The Bible does not say how often the churches are to observe the Lord's Supper. In Ac 20:7 there is an indication that at least one church had the custom of taking the Lord's Supper every Lord's day. Some groups have made this into a law, but the Bible does not say that every first century church had that practice, and there is no commandment that describes how often a church must observe the Supper. The Apostle Paul did not give any such instruction when he devoted almost a chapter of the first epistle to the Corinthians to the subject of the Supper (1Co 11:1-34). If the Holy Spirit had wanted to give a plain commandment about the timing of the Supper, that would have been an ideal occasion. Paul only said "as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup" (1Co 11:26). It does not say how often it should be done. It merely says "as often as" you observe the Supper, this is how it is to be done. We believe, therefore, that this is another matter that the Lord has left to the each church to decide for itself under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Some churches observe the Supper every week. Some observe it monthly or quarterly. Some observe it once a year, following the pattern of the Passover meal that Christ observed when He instituted the Supper. These various customs have advantages and disadvantages. If the Lord's Supper is taken every week, there is the distinct danger of it being a meaningless ritual. If it is taken only once a year, it has only a very small place in the believers' lives. In fact, if a child of God is in a church that observes the Lord's Supper only once a year, and for some reason he is unable to attend that one service, he can go two or three or more years without ever benefiting from this important memorial.

Requirements for Taking the Lord's Supper. (1) The individual must be a born again Christian (1Co 10:16-17). (2) The individual must be a baptized member of the church (Ac 2:41-42; 1Co 5:11; 11:20,33-34). (3) The individual must be in fellowship with the Lord (1Co 11:27-31). This involves striving to live in obedience to the Bible and carefully confessing one's sins (Joh 8:31-32; 1Jo 1:5-10).

Restricted Communion. Some object to placing restrictions on the Lord's Supper, saying we have no right to restrict the Lord's table. But the Bible teaches differently. Following are ways in which the Bible gives clear restrictions in this ordinance: 1. The Lord's Supper is restricted as to its purpose (1Co 11:20-22). 2. The Lord's Supper is restricted as to place - in the church (1Co 11:18). The Lord's Supper is a church ordinance. Contrast those who give the Lord's supper privately in homes or via a radio broadcast or at a parachurch Bible study or at an ecumenical conference. 3. The Lord's Supper is restricted as to the elements used - unleavened bread and fruit of the vine (1Co 11:26; Mt 26:26; Lu 22:19-20). Contrast those who use coca cola and or orange squash. 4. The Lord's Supper is restricted to baptized church members (Ac 2:41-42). 5. The Lord's Supper is restricted to church members who are not under church discipline (1Co 5:11). 6. The Lord's Supper is restricted to church members who are orderly (2Th 3:6). 7. The Lord's Supper is restricted to those who have examined themselves (1Co 11:28). Instead of the self-examination being the only requirement, it is in addition to all of the other restrictions.

Close or Closed Communion. For the following reasons we believe the Bible teaches that each church should partake of the Lord's Supper with its own members. 1. The Communion is taken as a church body (1Co 12:27). The Lord's Supper is a church function ("when ye come together" - 1Co 11:20,33-34). Each church is a body and takes its own Supper. 2. The Communion is under the church's discipline (1Co 5:9,13). It is the church's responsibility to exercise discipline over its members. This is impossible unless serious church functions and business are limited to members of that body. 3. The church is to be unified (1Co 1:10; Php 2:2). The unity required by God's Word is impossible except in a sound New Testament assembly among members committed to and yielded to that church's teaching authority. If church business (including the Lords Supper) is not controlled so that only members participate, it would be impossible for the church to fulfill the command for oneness of mind. We believe the church can invite visiting Christian workers to share the Lord's table with them if they are well known by the church family (Ac 20:7-11).

As a practical matter, it is wise for a church to observe the Lord's Supper in a meeting that is separate from the normal services that might include visitors and the unsaved. This way the visitors are not embarrassed by not being allowed to participate. This can be done in several ways. Some churches have the Lord's Supper during a special service that is conducted exclusively for that purpose, a service to which visitors are not invited, either on a day not ordinarily used for church services or at a different time on Sunday than the time of the regular services. Some churches have the Lord's Supper following a regular Sunday service, and they first kindly dismiss the visitors before conducting the Supper. Some churches dismiss the regular service, then the church members re-congregate in a different part of the church building to observe the Lord's Supper. This is something that is decided on a church by church basis, and is largely a practical matter that is determined through the use of "sanctified common sense."

Its amazing at how many Baptist do not know the proper way to carry out the Lord's Supper and will offer it to anyone. Some just will not completely submit to God and His way. And or they are to lazy to do what God tells His children to do.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15 (KJV)

[JJJ4given]

Communion is the celebration of the Lord's last supper which was, of course the Passover supper. Acts 3 is slightly after the feast of Pentecost which is 50 days after Passover. In short, the breaking of bread in Acts 3 has nothing to do with Passover, and therefore nothing to do with communion.

Love,
Madeline

We weren't talking about Acts 3. We were talking about Acts 2. Also, Acts 3 makes no mention of breaking of bread.

However, in Acts 2 it says they continued in those things. Not just had a feast on some holiday as you would infer:

Acts 2:42

[rickster57]

Hello Everyone, I don't do this often. I mainly sit back because I'm no scholar of any kind. It seems to me, tho, that the Bible clearly answers this in "The Great Commision". "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Matthew 28:19-20. I don't know of too many infants that can be taught the way Jesus refers. I don't mean to sound harsh or argumentative or condesending. It just seems like common sense that a person needs to be old enough to understand God's Word and Jesus' teachings to obey His Word. I was born into Roman Catholocism, baptized as an infant. When I did finally get to know God's Word, I got baptized because it was a matter of obedience when I became aware of His truth. It was a matter of consciense for me. I believe it is a matter of consciense for anyone. Phillipians 2:12-"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presense only, but now much more in my absense, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." As the spiritual overseer of his flock, the pastor must do as he sees appropriate to safeguard his flock. If that means he believes that a person cannot participate in the Lord's Table, then so be it. Personally, I believe that the pastor of the church should have the final say in that because it's up to him to set the compass for his flock. If he allows anything goes, then the flock follows and compromise can creep in quickly. For the believer who doesn't believe he/she dosen't need to be baptized, I think they should accept this decision with humility. If they search themselves prayerfully and read God's Word prayerfully, the Spirit will lead them to what they need to do. God's Word will not set man against man, man's interpretations and traditions will! Simply follow God's Word and the answers are there. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
Psalm 119:105 "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
With God's love
Rick

[Madeline]

We weren't talking about Acts 3. We were talking about Acts 2. Also, Acts 3 makes no mention of breaking of bread.

However, in Acts 2 it says they continued in those things. Not just had a feast on some holiday as you would infer:

Acts 2:42

[Jerry]

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

This verse indicates that the believers in this church observed the Lord's Supper weekly.

Some do it quite often, some not as often (maybe only once a year) - but the Lord lets each local church decide for themselves:

1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

[JerryNumbers]

:amen:

[Guest Guest]

My church believes in close (not closed) communion - so if a member of another like-minded IFB church visits when we are having communion' date=' he would be able to participate. However, someone like Sproul is not like-minded, he is not IFB (or even Free-Presbyterian, which is probably the closest denomination to IFB [u']overall - from what I know of them), so he would not be able to partake of communion with us - nor would I expect to take communion with them if for some reason I ever visited his church.

If your belief is that it's only a symbol, why are you so strict about who can and can't partake of the grape juice and crackers or whatever it is that you use?

[Jerry]

If the Bible speaks about it, then it is called obedience to do it God's way - you just show how rebellious your heart is by not caring what the Bible says.

By the way, the Bible teaches to use unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine (which is grape juice) - leaven is symbolic of sin, and there was no sin in Jesus; therefore to have fermented wine and leavened bread contradicts the Bible.

[JerryNumbers]

If your belief is that it's only a symbol, why are you so strict about who can and can't partake of the grape juice and crackers or whatever it is that you use?

Because that is the way God has ordained it to be, God way it the only way. Why would you do something different than God has ordained it?

Why not fully submit to God's way?

12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Prov 14:12 (KJV)

25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Prov 16:25 (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15 (KJV)

If you will buckle down, prayerfully study the Word, you will find God's way.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)

Our church believes in doing everything it the way God has told us, we try as best we can to obey Him.

[His by Grace]

The passage quoted in Acts 2 is quite clearly referring to water baptism. Every believer is baptized by the Holy Spirit - so it would be moot point to indicate they must be baptized first before partaking of the Lord's Supper - the instant they got saved, they got baptized by the Holy Spirit.

[1Timothy115]

Personal thoughts:
Any who are physically capable to follow the Lord's ordinance of water baptism should be baptised. However, this is for the Word of God to reveal to them, maybe through me. Classes for new Christians should teach this. The Christian will desire to follow Christ's ordinances and we should strive to insure they are aware of the teaching. If they understand to partake of one ordinance Christ established then how did they miss the other? That is, if they understood the ordinance of the Lord's Table then, why didn't they understand water baptism?

Those who are not physically able to receive Baptism I would not prevent from receiving the Lord's Supper. Physical impairments which can be overcome by the aid of brothers and sisters, when the new Christian becomes aware of it and desires to OBey, should be accomodated for the answer of a good conscience toward the Lord. I do not believe one ordinance is a prerequisite to the other.

Church membership, on the other hand, meaning local body of believers? That is up to the local body what they require for membership. Membership in the church established by Jesus Christ has no requirement for baptism. Why a local body would preclude another Christian from membership in the local church is beyond me?!?

[kevinmiller]

I agree, Tim. Though, I don't really agree with church membership, at all, but that's me.

[trc123]

Kevin, while I don't have a prOBlem with Church "membership" per se, the modern concept really is not Biblical in its form. It is a fine tradition that can be effective and is as useful as any other organizational structure; but it really isn't based upon Biblical example or precept. Today's church "membership" is more of a model like one sees with the Elks, Moose, Legion and Health Club "memberships."

The New Testament Church of Acts and subsequent books of the Bible really had a very different structure and methodology of operation and getting the Gospel out.

I'm not saying anything bad about today's practical application of Church "membership," I'm just saying it really isn't in a form that anyone from St. Paul's era would recognize if they were to come back and OBserve.