Thoughts on Revival...

[Timothy]

:goodpost:

[Madeline]

People's perceptions of reality differ. In my view (and I am not alone in my assessment), the church visible has never had such a famine in the serious teaching of the Word of God as presently is the case. 15-30 minute messages 90% of which are about finding the right spouse or having a good family life or giving more to the church do not in my opinion fall into the category of "good, strong messages that are biblically accurate and doctrinally correct". For the very fact that the truth in toto isn't being taught means that teaching tiny little sections of it because this fills the pews or helps the cause will inevitably lead to gross imperfections in even that part which is being addressed. From what I have observed in the function of organizational Christianity in the U.S., "revival" is emotional. "Heart" if by heart we mean emotionalism without any true content, is nothing but a momentary distraction, and unless it is a genuine response to the truth of scripture, only produces a big "hangover" on Monday morning. Emotion does not sustain us in a pinch. Only the truth in our heart, believed and ready to be applied can do that. That is what the Spirit uses. Our emotions have to respond to substance to be of any use; they have to follow the truth we have received by our free will - not lead us into response to something we may not even fully understand. Whether it is a typical Sunday morning sermon or a special dog-and-pony show cooked up to bring in a few extra bodies, as long as substance, seriousness, and genuineness of teaching is lacking, hardly anything good will come of it.

It is certainly true that there have been periods of history characterized by general apathy to the Bible and to the Lord, and periods where people seem to be more interested, the first and second "Great Awakenings" in this country for example, or the temporary interest in the Almighty that seemed to bubble up momentarily after 9/11. But ultimately what matters is what is going on in the hearts of individual Christians. It is a mistake for us to become over-focused upon the broad trends in society or the entire church visible generally since 1) we can't affect them; 2) we may misread them; 3) they don't have anything really to do with our spiritual objectives given to us by the Lord, namely, to grow up ourselves spiritually, then help others to do the same through the gifts and ministries we are assigned.

Love,
Madeline

[zealyouthguy]

While I agree with some of the prior posting, one must look at what revival is supposed to do; you are right, God is Glorified when people "hunger and thirst" after righteousness. However our problem is not a Faithful God, it is unfaithful children. We love and serve a Holy God; yet we do not use his standard for our lives, we use ours. God will not ever accept second-hand glory. Never has, never will.

Revival is just terminology; I prefer plain old fashioned repentence. It will always bring you closer to God; but it requires this, you must agree with God that what you are guilty of is sin. I asked this question once...."how many people would like to have God's power on their lives" of course many will say that they would like this more than anything else they could ever have; then I ask this.....do you exceed the speed limit, cheat on your taxes, etc.???

How can you expect a Holy God to pour out His Spiritual power on a vessel that is impure? If you WILL not do the things in your life that are right and under your control, how dare you ask a Holy God to bless that.

Get past this and God will provide what some like to call "revival", but the Bible simply calls it Holiness.

Welcome aboard Gator Preacher...

So can you live a pure life without the Spirit being poured on you?

I think THAT is the crux of the question.

[zealyouthguy]

People's perceptions of reality differ. In my view (and I am not alone in my assessment), the church visible has never had such a famine in the serious teaching of the Word of God as presently is the case. 15-30 minute messages 90% of which are about finding the right spouse or having a good family life or giving more to the church do not in my opinion fall into the category of "good, strong messages that are biblically accurate and doctrinally correct". For the very fact that the truth in toto isn't being taught means that teaching tiny little sections of it because this fills the pews or helps the cause will inevitably lead to gross imperfections in even that part which is being addressed. From what I have observed in the function of organizational Christianity in the U.S., "revival" is emotional. "Heart" if by heart we mean emotionalism without any true content, is nothing but a momentary distraction, and unless it is a genuine response to the truth of scripture, only produces a big "hangover" on Monday morning. Emotion does not sustain us in a pinch. Only the truth in our heart, believed and ready to be applied can do that. That is what the Spirit uses. Our emotions have to respond to substance to be of any use; they have to follow the truth we have received by our free will - not lead us into response to something we may not even fully understand. Whether it is a typical Sunday morning sermon or a special dog-and-pony show cooked up to bring in a few extra bodies, as long as substance, seriousness, and genuineness of teaching is lacking, hardly anything good will come of it.

It is certainly true that there have been periods of history characterized by general apathy to the Bible and to the Lord, and periods where people seem to be more interested, the first and second "Great Awakenings" in this country for example, or the temporary interest in the Almighty that seemed to bubble up momentarily after 9/11. But ultimately what matters is what is going on in the hearts of individual Christians. It is a mistake for us to become over-focused upon the broad trends in society or the entire church visible generally since 1) we can't affect them; 2) we may misread them; 3) they don't have anything really to do with our spiritual objectives given to us by the Lord, namely, to grow up ourselves spiritually, then help others to do the same through the gifts and ministries we are assigned.

Love,
Madeline

Here's the thing that has always intrigued me about the great awakenings...

Many people who came to them were coming because the preaching was an entertainment of types. It wasn't necessarily to hear the Word as much as to see what the big deal was about.

And, I believe that since there was such a dearth in the land, that their hearts were ready.

We receive just so many spiritual tidbits and spiritual snack food, that our appetites are skewed. (IMO)

Plus, I remember the late seventies/early eighties.

I was just at a meeting this past week with about 30 pastors, the vast majority were 45 or older (up to around 80) and they agreed that at THAT time there were a lot of people getting saved and it was just easier because the spirit was moving so greatly.

Which I suppose is why it's related to fishing... sometimes the fishing is good and sometimes it isn't.

I then also think of the book of Judges and related it to today. The up and down of the Israelites... deliverance and bondage repeated. It doesn't HAVE to be that way... but we aren't any smarter than the Israelites were.

[John81]

I do believe the oversaturation in America of false Christianity and weak Christianity has skewed and often hardened peoples hearts.

The TV and internet are both filled with false teaching and weak teaching that tend to turn non-Christians off, or just as bad, lead them into a false sense of security.

Most Americans either think they are already a Christian (for a variety of non-biblical reasons) or they think they know all they want to know about Christianity and they want nothing to do with it.

It can be very difficult witnessing in America today.

[Madeline]

In order for there to be true revival...there has to be a processs. It doesn't come about with preaching salvation in the church since the church is for the redeemed. It starts with prayer, second with God's people going out and sharing the Gospel, God's Word, with the lost. Planting the seed of God's word with the lost. Second, it involves the body of Christ going out and sharing the word again: watering, fertilizing, weeding the soil. Then in due season, once the harvest is ready, it involves God's people going out again and sharing the Gospel and then having a harvest. Then you have true revival. Politicians and laws do not change society. Soviet Russia had more laws than any other country and yet at the same time it had more crime than most other countries. There is only one thing which changes the heart of a person and brings revival and repentance: hearing the Word of God.

Isaiah 55:10-11 "For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

Romans 10:13-15 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Love,
Madeline

[DaveW]

After reading this I think that a criticle point has been largely missed.

Revival of a church is not a reality.

True "revival" (and I am not sure I like the term - is it a Bible term? Oh well we know what we mean I guess! ) has nothing to do with churches, and everything to do with individuals.

Before people start jumping to conclusions - I am not saying that churches are unimportant - I believe quite to the contrary.
BUT - Revival of a church is simply where you have the revival of several individuals.

You CAN NOT have revival without individuals being moved by the Holy Spirit.
What can happen I guess is that the revival that happens in a single heart, dedicated and prepared to truly hear the Word of God, can influence others to seek out the power they see in that one.

But this is "revival" of individuals.

Even in the best of "Revival meetings" there will be at least a number of people who are just going along for the ride.

Revival happens when a person allows the Lord to touch them and lead them.

And I am a real expert in this - Our church has never seen "revival" :sad , although I have seen hearts touched on a few occasions.

Revival is a personal thing, not a corporate thing, although it can seem corporate when the influence of the few spreads to a few more.


One thing I know is that I need it right now, and I seem to only be hindered in my pursuit of it. :sad

[Madeline]

[Jerry]

One thing I know is that I need it right now' date=' and I seem to only be hindered in my pursuit of it. :sad[/quote']

The only thing/person hindering you from being revived is yourself!

What is in your life that shouldn't be in there? Or what isn't in there that should be? Work on the things that you know God clearly wants you to deal with, and the revival will come (when we stop holding back areas of our lives). Too often we just don't want to give God ALL. I Surrender All should be changed in some hymnals to I Surrender Some. But God wants all, and there can be no personal revival until He gets our all. Even if we are holding back in what we think is a little area or an area that isn't too important (in our eyes), still it is something God told us to give to Him, to surrender to Him.

As far as revival being a Biblical term, consider these verses:

The first few verses of the word revive (and forms of it) refer to someone being brought back to life, which shows us that spiritual revival is being quickened, being brought back to life spiritually, being animated and fervent about spiritual things (and the Lord Himself) once again.

Ezra 9:8 And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

Ezra 9:9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.

Obviously, the next verse shows that revival is not simply an act of the will - though of course we must choose to repent and give the Lord our all - then the Lord strengthens and revives us spiritually.

Psalms 85:6 Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee?

Psalms 138:7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.

Here humility and repentance (ie. contrition, sorrow for sin) are shown to be prerequisites:

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Revival also seems to carry the idea of spiritually thriving/growing in our walks with the Lord:

Hosea 14:7 They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon.

Again, here it is shown that revival is a work of God - we can choose to be revived and desire it - but it is God who does the reviving:

Habakkuk 3:2 O LORD, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.

This verse is interesting - it shows that revival is more than merely having life, living:

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

[DaveW]

As to the first part of your answer - I know all that - it is getting from my head to my heart.
It is hard out there when you have very little fellowship or encouragement - one of the reasons I have joined here.
My particular situation means that getting together with people I can talk to and fellowship with is difficult.
As Paul said - to will is present with me, but how to perform... that I find not......

As to the points of Revival - none of those verses really matches up with what is most often called "revival" nowadays - but it does match with what I mean when I talk about revival.

For the record - I recently went through a series on prayer in our Wednesday night meeting, and over the first few weeks there was evidence of the Spirit moving. A few really great weeks where things changed.
But then a few things encroached on our Wednesday night meetings, disrupting the series, and causing us to lose momentum. When we were able to return, the attacks had been too heavy for some and a family who had been growing as a result of this, stopped coming, and haven't returned since.
When you are a small church a family leaving in that manner affects everyone, and the "revival" that I think was building began to wane.

We are all "trying" but the attacks of Satan seem to have been effective this time, and "revival" has been thwarted.

So if I seem a little downcast, it is because I am.

I am trying not be of course, but it is hard.

And yes I do know that it is when it is hard that you have to stick it out.

Have no fear - my confidence in the Lord is such that I know I am where He wants me to be, and I know that He wants me here, and serving Him.
There are people here who need to be saved, and there a few people in our church who are willing to learn - the need is great, and the Lord is strong.
I just need to get onto His specific plan for here, and then we can make some progress! :wink

[John81]

I've been in similar situations Dave and it indeed very tough.

Satan will use every opportunity and means to destroy a church, knock down or back a Christian, sow discord in a family, reap all sorts of havoc.

As hard as it is, when these things strike (and strike they will!) we need to become even more diligent in our prayer life and in standing together with other believers in the name of Christ against the onslaught.

When something threatens our Bible studies, we need to work hard in the power of the Holy Ghost to keep them going and on track.

When the devil comes against a church family (or individual in the church) we need to immediately rally round them. Lift them up in prayer, offer whatever support and comfort we can, and show ourselves to be a true, loving family in Christ.

Dave, this is a great forum and there are some wonderful brothers and sisters in Christ here. This forum and those fine folks were a great help to myself, and by extention to my whole family, as during a time when we were without a church home. Take comfort here, fellowship, request prayer from your fellows here.

[JerryNumbers]

Revival can happen in this time and I think it is, but to very few people.

But the main hold up is we depend to much on self, not enough on God.

Not that many years gone by, people depended on God so much.

But honestly, how many really depend on God now?

How many really have a true interest in God, so much interest that they will stay in the Word, depend only on God and not on the world and what it has to offer?

What do you trust in? Your job, pay check, bank account, retirement fund, insurance company? Please, I don't want your answers, that is between you and God.

[Timothy]

I really enjoyed Jerry, John, and Jerry's comments (he he). IMHO, they know what they are talking about. They have obviously "been there, done that". I really appreciated the Bible verses too.

Personally, I have gone through a lot myself, even if I'm not an old... guy (not sure how you guys would accept my slang--not rude, but...). This world is so wicked it isn't hard for teenagers to go through things that most people don't go through until they are 50!

Anyway, in this materialistic age, it is not hard at all to displease God, and end us up with a guilty conscience, and an unfruitful life. Often we think that God asks too much of us, and we aren't willing to give up *the good things* that make us so happy. Yea right...

True happiness can ONLY be found in in Jesus Christ. I'm living evidence! :smile

[John81]

Revival can happen in this time and I think it is, but to very few people.

But the main hold up is we depend to much on self, not enough on God.

Not that many years gone by, people depended on God so much.

But honestly, how many really depend on God now?

How many really have a true interest in God, so much interest that they will stay in the Word, depend only on God and not on the world and what it has to offer?

What do you trust in? Your job, pay check, bank account, retirement fund, insurance company? Please, I don't want your answers, that is between you and God.

Rather than folks actually spending much time in prayer (daily and over an extended period of time...however long it takes, whether weeks, months or years) and trusting God to answer, we are all too quick to expect, even demand, instant revival. Not only that, but rather than relying upon God, we are too quick to try and follow some modern book somebody wrote that claims to know the perfect, quickest way to fill the pews and fire up the congregation.

You are very right Jerry, we rely too much on our own selves, others and things. The great revivals of the past that I've read about all had one common factor: prayer! Not just a a one time prayer either, but intense, fervent, committed prayer for long periods of time each day, for weeks, months and years. The preachers and evangelists looked to God and put their reliance, faith and trust in God for revival and they pointed the people to God through Christ rather than some contemporary gimick.

[Jerry]

One of the most interesting things about sincere, fervent prayer (to the Lord) is that it conforms the person who prays to the will of God. Perhaps that is why true revival is dependant upon the amount of prayer or time spent in prayer. The more true believers fervently seek God in prayer, the more He transforms them to be like Him - He is changing them as they are focussing more and more on Him. Perhaps that is why many do not have true revival - we deal with our obvious sins, but we do not focus our whole being on seeking the will of God (even if we do spend time seeking to move His hand).