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What if someone gets saved but then commits a sin?

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Skimming through the last couple of pages, I realize no one tackled answering this verse:

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The word "save" means "deliverance." For example:

Psalms 18:3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.

The context states what someone is being saved from. The verse in 1 Peter is not speaking about being saved from sins, but from a guilty conscience. Baptism is the first step of obedience for the new believer - if he or she refused to follow the Lord in this step, their conscience would be convicting them; however, when they obey, their conscience is good and does not bother them (so the act of believer's baptism saved them from a guilty conscience).

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Do you realize what happened to the people in the water during the flood? They weren't saved from destruction.


Right - but those in the ark certainly were.

There are many uses of the word "saved" or "salvation" in Scripture - but the context will always show what type of salvation/deliverance is in view. The cults and false teachers want to confuse everyone and make them think that saved always refers to salvation from sins, but as you stated, it does not.

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Not a Biblical Christian - more like a member of a cult, which the Church of Christ is. They teach they must add their good works and baptism to what Jesus has done and that you can lose your salvation; which explains some of this person's responses on these boards.

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Works have no effect on our salvation whatsoever; if they do not save us, neither can they "lose" us.

If the Lord saved us "while we were yet sinners" (Rom. 5:8) how can be worse than "yet sinners"? We would have to be worse than that to lose our salvation.

Consider Phil 1:6, the Lord has begun a work in us, and it will continue until the end.
also Romans 11:29, where "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" is not salvation by faith a gift? (Eph 2:8)


One poster mentioned "what happens if we die with unconfessed sin" or something to that effect. I would like to ask him if his sin is is forgiven at Calvary, or at the moment he confesses it? To teach that we willl go to hell if we die with unconfessed sin on our hearts, is to ignore the power of Calvary and the atoning blood of Christ. Our sins are gone forever, else he would need to be crucifed daily to forgive them! Common sense. We do not get forgiveness through confession now, we restore fellowship with the Lord. that is what 1 John 1:9 is all about.

Speaking of 1 John, I might as well add that we no longer can sin! that ought to be a shocker, but it is true. We cannot sin if we are born of God (1 Jn. 3:4-9) Let me explain: sin is in two parts, as we are all aware of, transgression (which is referred to in the text of 1 John) and trespass. Transgression is sin against God directly (the first four commandments) while trespass is against man (and therefore against God--the last six of the Ten Commandments). I am not saying we keep the law to be saved, but the distinction was made way back in the law that there was certain sacrifices for certain sins. remember Christ asked in his model prayer, "forgive us our trespasses"...those are the sins we have today, sins that are against humanity and self, and not directly against God.

In the eyes of God (because of the blood of Christ) we cannot sin any longer--the blood is already applied for that; in the eyes of Christ, we have a relationship through him, and an obligation to one another (trespass) and are not to encroach on our brothers person or property. ("No trespassing"!) This is why the Christian stands before Christ and not God for his sin (works of the flesh). We cannot lose our salvation because our eternal God does an eternal work. He is not temporal, nor does he do that which is temporal concerning our souls. they are too precious, and costly, to Him.

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Sorry Irishman, I really think you are misunderstanding 1 John 3.

All our sin is still against God first and foremost.

1 John 3 uses the present tense - ongoing - in other words, the true child of God will not CONTINUE in sin, ie. will not live a lifestyle of sin - it is not saying a child of God will not sin at all, or these passages in the same book would contradict:

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Here is chapter 3 - the verbs that are present tense have "eth" or "th" endings:

1 John 3:4-10 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

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Sorry Irishman, I really think you are misunderstanding 1 John 3.

All our sin is still against God first and foremost.

1 John 3 uses the present tense - ongoing - in other words, the true child of God will not CONTINUE in sin, ie. will not live a lifestyle of sin - it is not saying a child of God will not sin at all, or these passages in the same book would contradict:

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


I have seen the phrases I have bolded used around here a lot and I am a bit confused by their usage. You say we make God a liar if we say we have not sinned because God has said that we all sin. How does this make God a liar and not just us being wrong? If you say "I have a red car" (and your car is in fact red) and I say, "no, you have a blue car" I am not making you a liar, I am just wrong, or mistaken, concerning the color of your car. How can we make God, or anyone else for that matter, a liar?

As far as the second phrase, "and his word is not in us," what does that mean? Are you using "word" to mean the New Testament or "Word" to mean Christ? And in either case, would a person again just not merely be mistaken? If a person is confused or wrong regarding scripture, does that mean that they do not have the Holy Spirit within them? Or does it just mean that they don't understand (or agree with your interpretation of) scripture?

I apologize if I am missing something, but it seems a little confusing to me.

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We make God a liar in the sense that we are denying what He has stated. In other words, it is calling God a liar through our rejection of the truth. If we believed what God said, we would embrace it.

The second part states "His word" is not in us - so that is referring to the Scriptures, not to Christ Himself. Confessing the truth means agreeing with it - denying it means it is not in us. Is any true Christian really going to deny they are and were a sinner? Anyone that does, certainly is deceived.

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Sorry Irishman, I really think you are misunderstanding 1 John 3.

All our sin is still against God first and foremost.

1 John 3 uses the present tense - ongoing - in other words, the true child of God will not CONTINUE in sin, ie. will not live a lifestyle of sin - it is not saying a child of God will not sin at all, or these passages in the same book would contradict:

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Here is chapter 3 - the verbs that are present tense have "eth" or "th" endings:

1 John 3:4-10 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Jerry, I will forgive you for disagreeing with me...this time! (just joking):icon_mrgreen:

Perhaps you misread my post. I did say that when we sin against man, we also sin against God, but more indirectly is what I meant. I did not say that we are without sin, but on the contrary, that we sin against ourselves (our own bodies) and our fellow man often, if not daily. (in attitude if not in flesh). remember that God has "put away" our sin, and will remmebr it no more. Does this only mean the sin up to the time of salvation? I don't think so, and I doubt that you do. It means all sin, forever. Therefore, in the eys of God we have no sin--he has forgotten them, and the blood of Christ has wiped them away, (Transgression i.e. the overstepping of the law); however, there are two parts to sin, as seen in several places in the Old and New Testaments; the other part (and it is just as much sin as transgression) is trespass sin. This is why the Lord ditinguished between the two when he said "Ye were dead in trepasses and sin" (Eph 2:1 and compare Col. 2:13). the Lord Himself forgives BOTH aspects of sin. We are only responsible though for sins against one another (lust; thievery; hatred; variance, seditions, etc.) These are the type we do from interacting with our fellow man, and the type we hide in our hearts and minds. Our souls cannot sin because they are redeemed already...forever. Of course you know all this, but I figure I did not make myself clear.

I still disagree on 1 John 1:9 though with most Christians view of it; most think that we have to confess our sin before we die or we are doomed forever. that is almost blasphemous, since it ignores the efficacy of Calvary. I John 1:9 does not replace or help us obtain forgiveness, Christ already paid the price and finished the work.

I guess what I am saying is that I respect your input, and your wisdom, but I still stand on what I posted originally. It seems to fit the flow of scripture, and makes better sense to me.

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We make God a liar in the sense that we are denying what He has stated. In other words, it is calling God a liar through our rejection of the truth. If we believed what God said, we would embrace it.

The second part states "His word" is not in us - so that is referring to the Scriptures, not to Christ Himself. Confessing the truth means agreeing with it - denying it means it is not in us. Is any true Christian really going to deny they are and were a sinner? Anyone that does, certainly is deceived.


"calling God a liar" makes much more sense. I just couldn't see how a person can "MAKE" God a liar, which to me, seems impossible.

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1 John 1:9 is referring to confessing our sins to the Lord to maintain or restore our fellowship with Him. As far as the sins against God, I really don't see where you get what you are saying. The Bible - including the 10 Commandments - teaches that our sins are ALL against God primarily, and then secondarily against man. Against thee only have I sinned is what David said.

Your explanation above about our sins in regards to after salvation does not line up with the Word of God. As believers, we know our sins will not prevent us from going to Heaven, and in light of eternity, they are forgiven - but the Bible still teaches we need to keep short accounts with the Lord (my words). A Christian can still have spiritual idols, can place things/people/themselves etc. at times above the Lord, can still use God's name in vain, etc. - these are all sins directly against God. If they are saved, they will be miserable when committing these sins (and all sins) because they will come under conviction by the Holy Spirit.

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1 John 1:9 is referring to confessing our sins to the Lord to maintain or restore our fellowship with Him. As far as the sins against God, I really don't see where you get what you are saying. The Bible - including the 10 Commandments - teaches that our sins are ALL against God primarily, and then secondarily against man. Against thee only have I sinned is what David said.

Your explanation above about our sins in regards to after salvation does not line up with the Word of God. As believers, we know our sins will not prevent us from going to Heaven, and in light of eternity, they are forgiven - but the Bible still teaches we need to keep short accounts with the Lord (my words). A Christian can still have spiritual idols, can place things/people/themselves etc. at times above the Lord, can still use God's name in vain, etc. - these are all sins directly against God. If they are saved, they will be miserable when committing these sins (and all sins) because they will come under conviction by the Holy Spirit.


oh well, i guess we just agree to disagree. remember the text in 1 John says the child of God "cannot sin" not that he "does not" there is a distinction there, but hey, maybe we need put this topic on another thread, since this was for and about eternal salvation. Sorry about the shift to another topic.

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Not a Biblical Christian - more like a member of a cult, which the Church of Christ is. They teach they must add their good works and baptism to what Jesus has done and that you can lose your salvation; which explains some of this person's responses on these boards.


Making personal attacks on me again? Of course, that is your freedom to do so. I will not respond in kind. But, I will take this chance to say that I am not now nor have I ever been a member of any cult.

The church of Christ is a cult? Did you actually say that? Are you saying that Christ established a cult? How sad Jerry. Christ certainly did not call it a cult (Matt 16:18-19). Neither did Paul (Eph 4:1ff, 1:22-23). But, I suppose if you wish to call it a cult you will just have to explain that to the Lord some day.

By the way, I certainly have never said that one's "good works" have anything to do with salvation; I don't know of any Christian/member of the church of Christ who teaches that either. What I have said/taught is what the Bible does say and that is that one must obey (Matt 7:21-23; Heb 5:8-9). Obedience certainly does include baptism as we read in Acts 2:38, 22:16; Gal 3:27; Col 2:12, Rom 6:3ff). Of course, I have already discussed these various passages and so you already knew that anyway.

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The Church of Christ (denomination) is a cult - it is not the church Christ started, nor the one mentioned in the Bible. It was started by Campbell in the 19th century, and teaches a works-based salvation, and that you must maintain your salvation by your works. The fact that you are here refuting and questioning a major fundamental doctrine such as eternal security is proof of those beliefs.

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On May 11, 1986 I heard a sermon on "The Lord is My Shepherd". I was convicted of my lost, sinful state, the reality of Hell, the awesome love of God. As I burst out of the pew and made my way to the altar, I believed on Jesus. The very second I beleived and began to scream out "Jesus", the Holy Ghost moved into my heart and soul before I even made it out of the pew. I came as a little child, just like Jesus says in His Word. Others' experiences may have been different but that's the way it was with me. The following verse tells what took place......
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The verse says that at the very moment I believed on Jesus, I was a POSSESSER of EVERLASTING life. I wasn't baptized until at least a week later...... The second part of this verse says that I SHALL NOT.....SHALL NOT come into condemnation.


I choose to trust in Jesus alone for my salvation.
Not water. Not good works

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On May 11, 1986 I heard a sermon on "The Lord is My Shepherd". I was convicted of my lost, sinful state, the reality of Hell, the awesome love of God. As I burst out of the pew and made my way to the altar, I believed on Jesus. The very second I beleived and began to scream out "Jesus", the Holy Ghost moved into my heart and soul before I even made it out of the pew. I came as a little child, just like Jesus says in His Word. Others' experiences may have been different but that's the way it was with me. The following verse tells what took place......
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The verse says that at the very moment I believed on Jesus, I was a POSSESSER of EVERLASTING life. I wasn't baptized until at least a week later...... The second part of this verse says that I SHALL NOT.....SHALL NOT come into condemnation.


I choose to trust in Jesus alone for my salvation.
Not water. Not good works


Correct, you were saved at that time, yet the 1st step in being obedient after this was being baptized.

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Correct, you were saved at that time, yet the 1st step in being obedient after this was being baptized.


Oh yes, absolutely. I was later baptized. But I am trying to get two points across to coc333.

#1. Salvation depends on Christ alone. Not baptism or anything else.
#2. A believer is eternally secure.

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Oh yes, absolutely. I was later baptized. But I am trying to get two points across to coc333.

#1. Salvation depends on Christ alone. Not baptism or anything else.
#2. A believer is eternally secure.


Yes, & you got that across quite well, & I added what was the next step & only step one can take and actually follow Jesus was.

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A couple of questions: Jerry, what are you referring to when you say "continuely living in sin"? What if a "saved" person gossips about someone or lies to someone, knows what they did was wrong, asks God for forgiveness but never goes to that person to make things right (maybe because of pride or because the fear of hurting that relationship). Are they truly saved? Are they continuely sinning until they make things right with that person? Also I heard J. Vernon Mcgee say that 'Even if the son wallows in the pig pen until he dies, he's still a son. He doesn't turn into a pig."

Whenever I read these confusing debates about Eternal Salvation, I always remember the thief on the cross who acknowledged his sins and asked Christ to "remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom". And Christ said,"Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in Paradise" No works were involved, no Baptism. Just faith.

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A couple of questions: Jerry, what are you referring to when you say "continuely living in sin"? What if a "saved" person gossips about someone or lies to someone, knows what they did was wrong, asks God for forgiveness but never goes to that person to make things right (maybe because of pride or because the fear of hurting that relationship). Are they truly saved? Are they continuely sinning until they make things right with that person? Also I heard J. Vernon Mcgee say that 'Even if the son wallows in the pig pen until he dies, he's still a son. He doesn't turn into a pig."

Whenever I read these confusing debates about Eternal Salvation, I always remember the thief on the cross who acknowledged his sins and asked Christ to "remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom". And Christ said,"Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in Paradise" No works were involved, no Baptism. Just faith.


Amen!

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Jerry, what are you referring to when you say "continuely living in sin"?

It would be better to discuss what the passage is referring to. The passage is stating that no true believer is going to continue in sin, ie. an ongoing walk in sin.

Believers sin - but they do not have a lifestyle of sin.

The Bible does not say the gossip will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven - but it does say fornicators, idolators, drunkards, those involved in sorcery, etc. - those are what we would call lifestyle sins.

What happens if a true child of God does not repent of their gossip (or any other sin)? God will chastise them to various degrees until they make that sin right. The last step for the unrepentant believer is death (which the Bible calls "the sin unto death" - ie. the sin that results in their death due to God's chastisement of them).

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Oh yes, absolutely. I was later baptized. But I am trying to get two points across to coc333.

#1. Salvation depends on Christ alone. Not baptism or anything else.
#2. A believer is eternally secure.


I am curious Heartstrings, are you attempting to convince me or are you trying to convince yourself? Either way, your twisting of one passage and your

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