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LindaR

Carrying Your Luggage To Heaven?

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I received this website link from FBIS (Way of Life Literature) on Thursday, October 4, 2007:

http://www.repentanceblacklist.com/

This website is provided by Pastor Steven L Anderson, pastor of Faithful Word Baptist Church, Phoenix, Arizona. I believe Pastor Steven L. Anderson is a member of OB and goes by the nic sanderson1769

Has anybody else received this email from David Cloud's ministry?

Here's a short paragraph from the email:

The website features articles by Jack Hyles, Curtis Hutson, and another man that allegedly present the truth about repentance, the "truth" being that repentance is the same as faith, that it is nothing more than a change of mind, and that it is not necessarily followed by a change of direction and lifestyle.

I don't believe that this is part of the doctrinal statement of OB. This person is slandering many godly Christian men and ministries.

Any thoughts?

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The Repentance Blacklist
*OPENLY DENOUNCING THOSE WHO ARE ADDING WORKS TO SALVATION*



"As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." - Galatians 1:9

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them." - Romans 16:17

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." - Acts 16:31



The independent fundamental Baptist movement has been totally infiltrated by those promoting the false doctrine that in order to be saved one must "repent of their sins." (This phrase is never found in the Bible.)

This supposedly involves a change in lifestyle or a "willingness" to turn away from sin in order to be saved. THAT IS WORKS SALVATION!

This is a clear departure from the Bible's teaching that FAITH ALONE is necessary for salvation. The Bible makes it clear what repentance really is:




A quote from the page.

I'm tired... really tired, so if I upset people because I'm short, so be it.

I know of a couple church "splits" and a handful of so called IFB churches that the pastor will come to you and tell you you're not saved, because you still put a cigarette in your mouth, or still struggle with lust, or don't keep a clean home, what ever.....

It's against bible plain and simple.

I've never met anyone, including the pastors that claim that once you're saved you never sin, that never sin. I don't know if it did any good, but I busted out a pastor of one of these churches about a year ago, who was telling me "in love' how much I needed to get saved ( I care what GOD thinks not this man) and I pointed out how he sinned not 20 min ago, in full detail. I'm sure I would of gotten hit if I wasn't buff with lightning in the eye. I'm not saying for you nit pickers that physical altercations are good, I'm just stating the fact that after I pointed out that this self righteous ego trip of a man explained to me how I'm not saved because HE thinks I'm not saved, when I rebuked him he wanted to respond in the flesh and the only thing that stopped him was that I'm not built like a baptist preacher. (:-D)

If the bible taught that to be saved you'd stop sinning, I'd be suicidal that I'm going to end up in hell, because I try and try and try and TRY AND TRY every day. Reading the bible, guarding my eyes, head phones in my ears listening to preaching and good conservative spiritual music and what EVER I can do to remind me that this flesh was bought by the LORD and it is not MINE to sin with... and yet... I fall short.

Thank GOD PRAISE JESUS that IT'S NOT ME!!!!! I'M NOTHING!!! I'm worthless, it's not me... thank GOD it's not me.... I'm so SORRY that the blood couldn't just wash me once and be done but it's a constant flow that not only forgave my sins of past, but washes me constantly for when I mess up.

Thank you God that you didn't tease me with "you're forgiven until next week thursday when you think about this one thing..." Oh no, I'm forgiven....

If not.... then I may as well go back to being catholic and try to "impress" God with how many candles I pay to light.

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we all struggle with sin... some more than others. But the Word of God preaches repentance from sin in many passages. Job 1:1 tells us that Job feared God and eschewed evil. That word eschewed means he turned his back on evil.

The Word of God declares that if we submit to God, we can resist the devil... do we not believe that?

Yes, we do sin, but one who is saved will feel the chastening hand of God when and if one does sin and one will repent of that sin... one will turn his back on it when one is convicted of it.

As to repentance before Salvation, there must be a measure of repentance prior to Salvation, for the Word of God teaches us that if we regard iniquity in our hearts the LORD will not hear us. God will not hear any prayer of the sinner prior to Salvation except one from a broken heart and a contrite spirit... one who feels crushed by the guilt of his sin so much that he is repentant of his sin. We see an instance of this in Acts 16:31. The Philippian jailor had heard the testimonies and singing and praises of Paul and Silas prior to the earthquake that opened all the doors in that jail. His prisoners did not escape. He saw their testimonies and praising were genuine and this brought conviction. His heart was crushed with the realization of his sin (a broken heart and a contrite spirit), and this led to his repentance. Paul and Silas saw this. There was no need to tell the jailor to repent... he already had. They only needed to instruct him to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus twice told the Pharisees, "Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." There was an urgency to have to repeat the command to repent, else Jesus would have only said it once.

Repentance is Biblical doctrine that is to be practiced by all who would wish to enter heaven. We cannot carry our sinful practices and deeds before a Holy God and expect to be welcomed into His Kingdom.

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This was part of a reply to comments about this website (taken from http://jackhammr.org/):

The editor of repentanceblacklist.com states that the phrase ?repent of their sins? is ?never found in the Bible.?

But, the following is found in the Bible:

Jer 8:6 I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle.

Eze 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

Ac 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

2Co 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Re 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Re 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Re 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Re 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

So, yes, there is no direct quote in the Bible of ?repent of their sins,? but there is repent of wickedness, uncleanness, fornication, lasciviousness, deeds, murders, sorceries, thefts, and idols. Now, that sure sounds like repenting of sin to me, unless those things are not sins!

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:amen: Jerry,

I maintain that the type of repentance upon which God is pleased and will grant salvation is not a once-and-done thing, but rather a decision to keep on making for the rest of our life. Confession is agreeing with God that our sins are evil in His sight and repentance is a decision to turn from them and to Him for cleansing and restoration of fellowship.

I say it this way because I hear so many people say that they did all of that way, way back and now they are "ok", and not to worry about them. Our KJV teaches quite plainly that we must always...

***maintain the Mind of Christ,

***examine ourselves to see if we are in the Faith,

***die daily to sin (i.e. repent),

***abhor that which is evil,

***cleave to that which is good,

***submit our bodies a living sacrifice (daily) to the LORD which is our reasonable service,

***make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof,

...and a whole host of other such-like things in an ongoing fashion.

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There are two extremes when it comes to people teaching repentance.Neither is biblical.
The first one is using a formulated prayer for salvation,which leads to false conversions.Some may truly be saved but it is a matter of the heart between the sinner and God.The big problem with this is that the 1-2-3 pray after me for salvation,is that people are putting their faith in a prayer and not theLord Jesus Christ.A sinner's prayer is a good thing if presented in the right context.
The second extreme is that a person must prove in their actions they have been saved by leaving sin before they can get saved.This is a works based salvation.Some teach people to repent of all their sin to be saved,and noone can do that because saved people sin every day.When a person trusts in the gospel(Jesus is God the Son and he died and was burried and rose from the dead for our sin),God works and does the transforming not "repenting of all you sin before you get saved'".
Repent means to turn from our way to God's way.Repentance is not the practice of good works or the absence of sin,so to teach that a person must give up sin(repent) as a prerequsit for salvation is not biblical.If we must do something,quit sin to be saved,its by works not grace. When someone truly puts their faith in Jesus for salvation there will be fruit.This friut is not produced by repentance,but by the indwelling Holy Spirit.Some have more fruit than others.Repentance is a heart change about our sinfullnes and lost condition before a Holy God.
The first wrong teaching about repentance makes salvation a formulatic prayer,the second way is a works salvation.
The reason IMO for most false conversions is not a wrong teaching about repentance but that the gospel is'nt presented fully enough.If a preacher preaches about David and Goliath for 30 minutes and then gives an initaion for salvation without ever mentioning the cross ,blood or resurrection,no wonder there are false conversions.

Rom.10:9,Eph1;13,Acts 21:20,I Thess 1:9,Rom.11:6,Acts 16:31,John 3:16

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Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

In verse 18, it says they were granted repentance. Sounds to me like repentance is a gift. Maybe I'm wrong. Let me know.

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Guest Guest

The IFB's calls for repentance in order to be saved is a biblical backlash to easy believism. Basically those that acknowledge that Jesus is God and then go about their merry way living like the devil and apparently completely without any guilt. That is a large chunk of America. The bible teaches that God will chasten his children so if someone can "sin and win" they are not a Christian. The more a Christian sins the more miserable he becomes. Of course we are saved by faith alone but saving faith never comes alone. Get the Difference? Thats why in the book of James it says faith without works is dead. Not because the works have anything to do with salvation, but because works are going to be a byproduct of salvation. That's also why scripture says we shall know them by their fruit. Not because fruit = salvation, but because salvation = fruit sooner or later. :Green

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Biblical repentance is a change of mind/heart resulting in a change of conduct - and yes, we are expected to give up (ie. turn from) our sin when we come to Christ. Works would be cleaning up our lives - repentance is having the mindset to turn from the sins. (True repentance is not cleaning up our lives first before we come to Christ - it is having the willingness to turn from them, then trusting the Lord who now saved you to help clean up your life AS you walk with Him. True repentance WILL result in a changed life - repentance is not the changed life, it is the changed mind that results in it. If there is no changed life after the point of "salvation," there was no salvation.) There is a difference.

But as those verses showed above, there are even specific sins God expects us to turn from in order to receive His salvation. One would be idolatry - you can't be saved by the true God when you are still clinging to idols. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 also lists 10 sins/lifestyles that God expects us to turn from/change our minds about when we come to Him for salvation.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

For example: there is no salvation for the unrepentant sodomite - salvation comes when they turn from their sin to Christ.

For example:

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

There is no adding Jesus to your other gods - it is acknowledging that there is only one true God and turning to Him alone for salvation, trusting in His finished work of redemption.

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Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

In verse 18, it says they were granted repentance. Sounds to me like repentance is a gift. Maybe I'm wrong. Let me know.

:goodpost:

I see it that way too. :thumb

When we are truly sorry for our sins and look to Jesus to save us with a genuine repentant heart (i.e. with all of our heart and nothing held back) God will reach down and take us from there. He grants us the power to come to Him, and along with that is the power to say no to sin and turn our back on it. I see the sequence like this::::::

#1. He calls us and everyone else to salvation by convicting us of sin. He shows us we are wrong (our conscience).

#2. We either respond favorably or negatively.

#3. If our response is negative, He may keep calling, and then again may not.

#4. If our response is positive then He will grant us more "light", I.E. knowledge leading towards salvation.

#5. If we keep responding positively to every bit of light that He gives us then He will grant us salvation when we come to Him with a truly repentant heart, and plead with Him to save us.

Consider Hebrews 6:4-8. There we see many people that came sooooooo close to salvation but then turned away at the last minute. They tasted of the heavenly gifts. They even tasted of salvation, but did not drink deeply. What held them back???? probably pride combined with fear of what people would think if they became a peculiar person for Jesus' sake.

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Why "repent" is just another one of them there ugly nasty words that scares away the pew polishers, just like words like "sin" and "blood atonement" and "Jesus" "church" "gospel" - how can you walk away feeling good about yourself if someone wants you to actually "do" something like repent? Who wants someone to stand there and put a spotlight on what "sin" really is - and expect the blood of Jesus to wash away those stains? What kind of Marketing Idiot would dare to speak of such a conscience pricking soul-searching message like "sin and repentance"? Never mind what the Bible says about it, just sit here in this comfortable padded arm chair and we shall put on a nice entertaining show and you can show us how much you enjoyed it when we pass the offering plate around. We will project a few verses of paraphrased scripture, with all of them ugly words edited out, on the wall just to help you feel as if you really are doing something of a spiritual nature. You can even wave your hands in the air and sing along if that is what makes you feel good about yourself.

In the meantime here is how many times the word REPENT is mentioned in the New Testament. Avert your eyes and plug your ears if you do not want to hear about it!

Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:15 And saying

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Amen!!

Don't forget the puppet show and the drama skits!!

I work at the Kelowna Gospel Mission, and am responsible for doing most of the lunch and supper devotionals on the days I work. Well, last week we had a group from Youth With A Mission come in, and my boss got them to cover the lunch devotional one day. They did some mime skit (with some Christian hard rock blaring in the background), which had the whole group tugging on a chair - tugging it in different directions, but all holding onto it until the end of the song. Everyone wondered what was up with that?! Then they took 30 seconds to explain that their skit showed the influence of sin - how it traps you, and that you need Jesus to help you break free! That was it. No explanation of HOW Jesus sets you free, or that you need to be saved, or anything else. It sickened me. Sad!

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Summer before last we had a Vacation Bible School program that featured a very Godly puppet show - they taught the children several verses of scriptures and some 100 children were saved that weeek! Then last summer our church did a Vacation Bible School with this guy who did balloon animals - he did a bunch of silly stuff, made some balloon animals and did not mention God, Jesus, or the Bible not one single time! We were there the first day and then we left.

So there is a time and a place for such things, but if you ignore the gospel of Jesus for the sake of entertainment, you have certainly missed the mark!

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Well, now, I'm disappointed that I'm not on that blacklist - I guess I'm just going to have to preach "harder."

Mitch


:amen: If I were a pastor, I'd want to be on the blacklist too.

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I think we are all saying the same thing.True salvation leads to friut.A sinning Christian will receive chastiment.A truely saved person will feel the Holy Spirit conviction about sin when it is preached,a lost person will not.when a lost person gets saved
(at the time of salvation) will know that they are a sinner before a righteous God and that Jesus is their only hope.
Works in a saved person's life are the result of the Holy Spirit,not repentance(if some say repentance is to give up sin in order to be saved.)
I agree with Jerry,repentance is a changed mind about sin.When salvation comes fruit will follow because when a person is saved,they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit for the purpose of sanctification.
I disagree that there are 'certain' sins a person must stop doing in order to be saved,unless that sin is the rejection of the gospel,that cant be forginven if a person dies in their sin without Jesus.A person must have a changed mind about his way and turn to Gods way,and that includes all sin not just a handfull.The Holy Spirit does the work
of repentance and faith in the gospel when a person gets saved.

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I disagree that there are 'certain' sins a person must stop doing in order to be saved' date='unless that sin is the rejection of the gospel,that cant be forginven if a person dies in their sin without Jesus.[/quote']

Consider what these verses state:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul states here that these type of people will not inherit the kingdom of God (ie. not be saved) - that certainly indicates these specific sins must be turned from in order to even be saved. That makes sense, considering that some of these are sexual sins - and one of the reasons people get saved is because they have become convinced they have broken God's law and need a Saviour (thou shalt not commit adultery). If they had no intention of turning from these specific sins (ie. repentance), then why do they need the Saviour? Their desire for salvation is insincere.

Ephesians 5:5-6 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

These verses taken together indicate to me that there are things God wants us to turn from when we turn to Him. There is no such thing as a sodomite Christian. Why not? Because they had to turn from their sodomy to receive the Saviour. There is no such thing as an idolatrous Christian. Why not? Because they had to turn from their idols to receive the Saviour, the true God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Lest anyone take my statements out of context - I believe these are referring to lifestyle sins, ie. ongoing sins in the lives of the lost. Yes, a Christian can commit any one of them - but there will be chastisement from God if they do so. However, I do not believe anyone can be saved if the Holy Spirit brings these sins to their attention (because they were currently part of the life of the individual) and they wilfully hold onto them while supposedly receiving the Saviour.

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Nothing to disagree about there.If a person gets saves,the Holy spirit will convict someones heart about all manner of sin(thats why it's important to preach against sin IMO)so if a person says they said the sinners prayer but feel no conviction of their sinfull lifestyle, such as sodomy no salvation because they dont have the convicting work of the Holy Spirit because they have never been saved.Heres a good verse to prove your point Jerry,
Revalation 21:8"But the fearful,and unbelieving,and the abominable,and the murderers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone;which is the second death."

Ill be honest I have told a lie since i was saved,but when I read this verse it convicts me that I need to get right with God and not lie,now I have even probably told lies after I have done this...but to make your good point..my LIFESTYLE will not be one of a liar.
Man this message board is cool :cooldude: .The sharing of Gods word to edify one another is a blessing! :amen: Sorry,I am one of the excitable types :smile

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