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Bakershalfdozen

Gender Roles

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Per dwayner's suggestion...


What are Biblical gender roles for men and women?

Here are some common questions people have:

1. Can a woman work outside the home and still be Biblical?

2. Does a wife have to ask her husband permission for every thing she does?

3. Just what is submission anyway?

4. What does it mean for a man to love his wife the way Christ loved the Church?

5. Is being a "house husband" wrong?

6. Is it wrong for a man to ask his wife to take care of the household finances?

7. Women voting thread participants, where does the Bible say it is wrong for a woman to vote?


Have fun and be nice. :Bleh


I was hoping more people would participate in this thread because the Bible has quite a bit to say about women and how Jesus viewed them that might surprise some. I have an article I will post later that is sooooo good. I have to get permission to post it first though.

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Here's one I heard from a pastor while I was a Bible college student:

"THEY LET GIRLS TAKE APOLOGETICS AT YOUR SCHOOL?!?!?!?" :eek

haha

Not only do they let them, it is required*. So is Hermeneutics. Greek is optional but fun nevertheless. :lol


*It was required when I was there. Things may have changed by now.

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I think we ought to sit back and wait for the men to answer these questions first - since THEY were the ones who brought this up in the first place! Is that submissive enough? :Bleh

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That is correct. Now then' date=' does God ever tell men to submit to their wives?[/quote']

no :smile

But He did tell husbands to love their wives "even as" Christ loved the church (Eph.5:25). The love here refers to a sacrificial giving on the part of the husband. There is no sacrifice that a husband shouldn't be willing to make for his wife. I'm not sure if this helps or not.

Love,
Madeline

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I am goin to try to answer some of the roles you mentioned

Per dwayner's suggestion...


What are Biblical gender roles for men and women?

Here are some common questions people have:

1. Can a woman work outside the home and still be Biblical? Are there children, she needs to be home to raise them, if not I find no scripture that condems it.

2. Does a wife have to ask her husband permission for every thing she does? If you look at the virteous woman she purchases a field. It does not mention her asking her husband. Having to ask about every little thing (and a land purchase is not little) makes a robot. I do not find women in the Bible being robots. Sarah may have called Abraham lord, but she told him to get rid of Hagar and Ishmael.

3. Just what is submission anyway? One of the most twisted words in the english language :loll: A women puts herself into submission to her husband to be the head of the house. That does not mean she has no mind, or personal fealings. It means she puts her husband first.

4. What does it mean for a man to love his wife the way Christ loved the Church? How did Christ love the church?? Enough to give his life for it. This is where we find the balancing of the women being in submission. If she puts puts him first she lifts him up. If he puts her first, he lifts her up. Though the man has the final say in the household, he is not the "god" of the house. The Bible speaks of a man and his wife as one.

5. Is being a "house husband" wrong? Depends on the circumstances. If a man is sick or disabled, but can take care of the house, power to them. If he is able bodied though, his place is to be providing for his house.

6. Is it wrong for a man to ask his wife to take care of the household finances? The husband of the virteous woman did not need to worry about spoil. He could trust her. That is what I see when I hear about someone feeling that the wife should not care for the finances. There are some women God has given a great gift of being able to care for finances. There are some men who cannot handle finances. If you have these as a pair, it would be nothing more than pride for him to forbid her to take care of it.

7. Women voting thread participants, where does the Bible say it is wrong for a woman to vote?


Have fun and be nice. :Bleh


I was hoping more people would participate in this thread because the Bible has quite a bit to say about women and how Jesus viewed them that might surprise some. I have an article I will post later that is sooooo good. I have to get permission to post it first though.

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What is Ephesians 5:21 referring to then?


I believe that verse refers to submitting our rights over to theirs, i.e., to be in subordination to them based on God's hierarchal system (children submitting to parents, wifes submitting to their husbnands, husbands submitting to Christ, civil authorities, etc.). Paul writes about the distinction and function of the roles/submission of the divine order of things as stated in 1 Cor.11:3, "....the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

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Gimme time to clean and reload pappy's shot gun - it went off accidently on that other thread! :face:



I use toilet paper when cleaning the scatter guns, it's cheap.
But if I wanna get in trouble I just put a gun on the bed, or the couch.
and on the other hand I won't let her spray WD40 on the floor when it squeaks. :uuhm:

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That is correct. Now then' date=' does God ever tell men to submit to their wives?[/quote']


I find no verses that say so, but in my thinking if I was slacking in my duties to God, I would be disappointed if my wife never tried to steer me right.

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Per dwayner's suggestion...


What are Biblical gender roles for men and women?

Here are some common questions people have:

1. Can a woman work outside the home and still be Biblical? If there are not children at home or it's during the time children are home... although MY WIFE, works far harder at home than she ever did in the secular world... and we are better off for it. We are poor, but our children are rich.

2. Does a wife have to ask her husband permission for every thing she does? No, I don't think that anyone is implying that. In my house we have (for the most part) set aside areas of responsibility. Your house may look different, but the final say should be the husbands, in areas of differing opinions.

3. Just what is submission anyway? Submission is simply yielding. It looks different in different situations. EVERYONE is under submission to someone (or someoneS).

4. What does it mean for a man to love his wife the way Christ loved the Church? I think the Bible answers that questions pretty straight forwardly:
Ephesians 5:25-33 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

He is to give himself, body, soul and spirit to protect her, to take care of her, to keep her from spot and to do for her everything he would do for himself, unselfishly.

5. Is being a "house husband" wrong? I suppose you would have to define "house husband" for me.

6. Is it wrong for a man to ask his wife to take care of the household finances? Not at all, I believe that the lady in Proverbs 31 was pretty adept at finances. But she is not to USURP control of the finances from the man if it's against his will. Many households benefit from the wife being the one with better financial wisdom and control.

7. Women voting thread participants, where does the Bible say it is wrong for a woman to vote? No where, unless you mean voting contrary to explicit desires of her husband or father...


Have fun and be nice. :Bleh


I was hoping more people would participate in this thread because the Bible has quite a bit to say about women and how Jesus viewed them that might surprise some. I have an article I will post later that is sooooo good. I have to get permission to post it first though.

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What are Biblical gender roles for men and women?

1. Can a woman work outside the home and still be Biblical?
I believe that a woman should be at home if there are children. If not, then I don't see working as being Biblically restricted. I would rather that my wife doesn't work at all, mostly because I wouldn't want to put her through the stress of being in the workforce.

2. Does a wife have to ask her husband permission for every thing she does?
No....Good grief, she isn't a slave. lol
I think it is important, however, to ask her husband before making any kind of important decision.

3. Just what is submission anyway?
I see submission as being under the husband's authority. It's not about being a robot or never giving an opinion. On the contrary, i believe that a man should get his wife's opinion. If the two cannot come to an agreement or compromise about something, however, the man should have the final say. I think a lot of broken marriages result in two people trying to rule the roost, which doesn't work.

4. What does it mean for a man to love his wife the way Christ loved the Church?
I believe it means unconditional, self-sacrificing love. The man should do everything in his power to show his wife Corinthians 13 agape love.

5. Is being a "house husband" wrong?
Yes. The man is supposed to be the provider for the family. Sending his wife out to do his job is wrong in my opinion.

6. Is it wrong for a man to ask his wife to take care of the household finances?
YES!! I've seen the stress placed on women who have to manage the family finances, it should be the man's responsibility. Also, I think it falls under his authority as well. I've actually known of a woman who managed the finances(including those from her husband's job) and she told him exactly how much money he was allowed to have and he had to ask permission to take out money. Something is wrong there, I think.

7. Women voting thread participants, where does the Bible say it is wrong for a woman to vote?
It doesn't. I just believe that God placed man in authority and men should be exercising that authority. I would encourage women today to vote because every liberal woman out there will also be voting.

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What is Ephesians 5:21 referring to then?


hehe... I love it.

Everyone loves to start quoting away at verse 22. Everyone conveniently forgets verse 21. Men submit to their wives through love. It means we take and heed their advice. It means that we value their opinion, even higher than ours. It means that we as the next verse says learn them, and then live with them according to that knowledge.

Men, how do you obey I Peter 3:7?

You learn your wife, and then you live with her according to that knowledge. If your wife likes to work out, you give her a gym membership. If she has a hard time cleaning the house and homeschooling the kids, you get her someone to come in and clean once a week/month/whatever. If she likes gifts, I'll pray for you... no seriously, you get her little stuff. You learn your wife and you place her in high esteem in your treatment of her. As to the weaker vessel... vessel (used in I Thess somewhere) literally means body. Best I can tell, this was a lesson in the obvious... I think if it were being written today it would be something like don't treat her with contempt when you have to open the jar... her body is just weaker. A weak body means nothing about a weak spirit or a weak value.

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1. Can a woman work outside the home and still be Biblical? Sure.
2. Does a wife have to ask her husband permission for every thing she does? No.
3. Just what is submission anyway? I'll take Kevin's answer
4. What does it mean for a man to love his wife the way Christ loved the Church? See my last post
5. Is being a "house husband" wrong? No
6. Is it wrong for a man to ask his wife to take care of the household finances? No
7. Women voting thread participants, where does the Bible say it is wrong for a woman to vote? It doesn't.

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hehe... I love it.

Everyone loves to start quoting away at verse 22. Everyone conveniently forgets verse 21. Men submit to their wives through love. It means we take and head their advice. It means that we value their opinion, even higher then ours. It means that we as the next verse says learn them, and then live with them according to that knowledge.

You learn your wife, and then you live with her according to that knowledge. If your wife likes to workout, you give her a gym membership. If she has a hard time cleaning the house and homeschooling the kids, you get her someone to come in and clean once a week/month/whatever. If she likes gifts, I'll pray for you... no seriously, you get her little stuff. You learn your wife and you place her in high esteem in your treatment of her. As to the weaker vessel... vessel (used in I thess somewhere) literally means body. Best I can tell, this was a lesson in the obvious... I think if it were being written today it would be something like don't treat her with contempt when you have to open the jar... her body is just weaker. A weak body means nothing about a weak spirit or a weak value.



Excellent, dwayner! :thumb

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How appropriate and timely. :puzzled:

Um, I'm still learning just what my role is and how to fulfill it as God dictates.

Not to go off topic. But, are there any sound authors that have written a book in this regard?

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There has been a rash of gender role books out there. I can't say I recommend any carte blanc, but my wife is reading Captivating while I am reading Wild at Heart. We plan to switch at the end and read about the other side. So far, Wild at heart is interesting, with some neat ideas but little depth. It feels like the tide is turning, but I normally like a book to get to the point a lot sooner then this one (nearly 1/2 way through).

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This topic is great since this sort of stuff has been on my mind so much lately! I feel that different gender duties/roles has been muddied so much as to where both men and women don't have much of a clear concept of what they specifically should be doing according to the Bible. I had no idea there are books out on this very subject, but I'd like to read one someday. Here's some thoughts I put together earlier today that you can throw around and pick apart. :smile

I can't let a topic like this pass me by, but I don't want to answer the original questions. Recently, I was struggling so much with what my role is in life - am I supposed to be following the "great commission" or what? Am I supposed to be doing a great big job in evangelizing the world? I've always been taught that the great commission is to everyone, and so we're all supposed to be actively out evangelizing. Well, that doesn't sit well with me. I'm an introvert to the extreme with people I don't know, (well, in person, that is) and I'm a homebody who loves to be at home doing wifey things, and furthermore, we're in China where we can't exactly be out going door to door. So I got to thinking on things I've been taught in the past. I and some other lady friends of mine still deal with or have dealt with great guilt as we're young mothers with small children, and we've heard so much preaching about going soul-winning and such, but for some of us it's nigh to impossible at this time in our lives. I can't tell you how much brain strain and worry and guilt I've had over this, and I've talked to other mothers like me who also have such great guilt about it.

Then something dawned on me. I've worried and stressed so much about a command in the Bible that perhaps isn't even to me, but have I worried and stressed much about what is for me? Nope, not much - I've not even been too clear on what in the Bible is specifically for me. Why do we stress about our rights and all, but spend so little brain stress on what's specifically for us as women in the Bible? I'm speaking to the choir here because in the past, I've not given too much thought towards what's specifically for women in the Bible. So, now I'm very curious to study women's roles and specifically wives and mother's roles in the Bible. Instead of worrying about what we can't do, we should be studying to find out what we're supposed to be doing. So lately I've been looking in Acts to find what role women had after the great commission was given. I'm looking forward to seeing how women were used by God in the Bible. I need to know what I should be doing and not be working on finding out what people think I shouldn't be doing. I've stressed so much about not being an outgoing witness, when on the other hand I let things in my home and marriage continually slip by doing a shoddy job and giving it very little attention or planning. The Bible doesn't specifically say "women, go out door to door", but it does say "wives be in subjection" and it also implies "be a keeper at home". The Bible doesn't say "wives, get into politics", but it has so many other implications towards wives that are left being undone. Generally speaking, I feel that women have for so long been worrying over their rights and being equal in doing men's duties and not letting the men stamp us down, that we're sorta unclear about what our own duties are anymore. And if we would work on defining what our duties are Biblically and specifically work on doing those things, we'd find that it's an honorable role that will keep us busy and content.

I'm not saying that I'm against women in politics or door to door witnessing or the other million good things women can do, but I guess I would be against those things if they're making it so that other clearer Biblical commands or Biblical implications for women are being left undone. And of course we women should be good testimonies and witnesses to people we come across in our daily lives and get into outreach ministries as we have time for them and as our husbands make it possible for us to do.

As for this being something to pity us women for, I've never felt more freer than when I realized this stuff about me and my role recently! It was like a huge cloud of guilt was lifted off of me, and I was freed up to do what I'm actually supposed to be doing. (not that submitting is always easy, by any means!) I'm glad and anxious to get into the Bible and see what's for me as a wife and mother. It's hard to explain, but it was like in the past, I knew I had a job, but knowing what my duties were in my job was very unclear and seemed like too much, and I stressed and guilted over them so much! But when I realized I was looking at somebody else's spiritual to-do list instead of my own, my duties were much clearer to me, and I am now able to give them the attention they need instead of constantly worrying over what I'm not getting done (but which was perhaps not really part of my duties in the first place).

I guess all that in a nutshell would be - we need to quit worrying about what we can't do, or what other people think we should or shouldn't be doing, and instead figure out from the Bible what our real duties are as women, wives, and mothers and then just work on that.

And on a side note - I don't think husbands should be pointing out the wife verses to their wives, and neither should the wives point out the husband verses to their husbands. But both sides needs to just take those verses and commands that are for them personally and work on those things and get their spiritual roles better defined in their minds.

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Thankyou Katie for your post. I agree with you whole heartedly. I am happy in my role as wife and mother. My husband and my children are my primary ministry.
I have been struggling for quite some time with the fact that I can't "do It all".
I have come to relise through the scriptures that God calls me to be my husband's helpmeet.Ii support his ministry; not he support mine!
What a revelation! I am free to be the wife and mother I long to be!
I believe that God created woman to be "home " centred ( after Him and our husbands of course!) Why should we feel guilty when our natural inclinations pull us this way? My witnessing oppurtunities are with my neighbours and those I interact with week to week. My field at the moment are the souls of my children and sunday school class. My 4 year old is not yet saved.

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