Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

flaja

wrong faith

Recommended Posts

When I participate in internet forums I always present my beliefs in absolute terms. I generally see religious issues as black and white and seldom ever gray.

I have no qualms about telling someone that they are wrong on matters of religion when I have reason to believe that they are wrong. For this I am usually criticized mercilessly.

What I want to know is, can you insist that your faith is right if you are unwilling to say other faiths (or variations on your own faith) are wrong? If you are unwilling to say others are wrong when they don?t accept your faith, can you have any faith at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When I participate in internet forums I always present my beliefs in absolute terms. I generally see religious issues as black and white and seldom ever gray.

I have no qualms about telling someone that they are wrong on matters of religion when I have reason to believe that they are wrong. For this I am usually criticized mercilessly.

What I want to know is, can you insist that your faith is right if you are unwilling to say other faiths (or variations on your own faith) are wrong? If you are unwilling to say others are wrong when they don?t accept your faith, can you have any faith at all?

By what standard do you base your beliefs?

It doesn't matter whether someone accepts my faith or not--it is not MY faith which anyone needs to accept. There is only ONE faith (not sure what you mean by variations of our faith) and ONE truth! We are told to contend EARNESTLY for THE faith which was once delivered to the saints. (Jude 3). We are to share the Gospel with the lost according to what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19-20. The result of rejecting the gift of salvation in Jesus Christ is eternal damnation and torment in the Lake of Fire. (Revelation 20:14-15)

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[by what standard do you base your beliefs?


Authorized King James translation of the Holy Bible.

It doesn't matter whether someone accepts my faith or not--it is not MY faith which anyone needs to accept.


If you believe that your faith is the only way to achieve salvation, and you are concerned about the salvation of others, then how can you say that others don't need to accept your faith?

There is only ONE faith (not sure what you mean by variations of our faith)


I don't consider things like Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Pentecostalism or Jehovah's Witnesses to be legitimate Christianity, but they are variations on Christianity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't consider things like Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Pentecostalism or Jehovah's Witnesses to be legitimate Christianity, but they are variations on Christianity.


About the only one in that group that represents Christianity (in any sense) is Pentecostalism - not their Pentecostal doctrines, but many of them do have the right doctrine on how to be saved (which those other groups do not - therefore they are cults/false religions in the first place).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I don?t consider Pentecostals to be legitimate Christians regardless of their stance on salvation because they are not Christian in practice.

Furthermore, I do consider Pentecostals to be the equivalent of cults because of their mind control.

I have an elderly friend, a woman whom I have known for almost 30 years, that is in a nursing home against her will. She was raised as a Lutheran, but she has been a Pentecostal since before I met her. She had something like a nervous breakdown when she was about 30 and since then her only income has been a social security disability pension (apart from what her husband made as a common laborer- when he wasn?t unemployed). She has always been a compulsive spender (not shopper because she never worried about getting her money?s worth on anything) so she has never been good at managing her money.

Until she went into the nursing home she was always on more mail-order preacher begging lists than I could count. She and her husband often had their lights and water turned off and they lived their lives in the local pawn shops (often paying more in pawn fees than whatever they had pawned was worth just so they could keep it to pawn again). But they never failed to pay the Lord His tithe and then some expecting God to bless them. They were both suckers for ever name-it-and-claim-it charlatan that came along. Now that my friend is in the nursing home she is convinced that the home is keeping her just so it can steal her Social Security check. She is all but blind and for all practical purpose she cannot walk. But she honestly believes that God put in the nursing home because she didn?t give Him enough tithe money over the years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone with the right teaching/doctrine on how to be saved (and who does in fact believe it) IS a Christian, regardless of whatever other mess of doctrines they may have. Many Pentecostals still believe the right things about salvation, but add many extrabiblical junk to their practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But she honestly believes that God put in the nursing home because she didn?t give Him enough tithe money over the years.
Giving tithes to God is personal, and I don't believe that you have enough Biblical authority or knowledge to state just why God does what He does with people. The Bible does reveal that God does what He does to glorify Himself, so that sounds contradictory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When I participate in internet forums I always present my beliefs in absolute terms. I generally see religious issues as black and white and seldom ever gray.

I have no qualms about telling someone that they are wrong on matters of religion when I have reason to believe that they are wrong. For this I am usually criticized mercilessly.

What I want to know is, can you insist that your faith is right if you are unwilling to say other faiths (or variations on your own faith) are wrong? If you are unwilling to say others are wrong when they don?t accept your faith, can you have any faith at all?


I believe that what I believe is right if not how can you say you believe on anything. I think that there is only one way to be saved no other, and that anyone who believes contrary to that is wrong, yes I believe that my faith is the only faith that is not corrupted by mans intrusion on God, We believe what the bible says, thats it no more no less. If you disagree with what the bible says then your wrong. Do I think that others of diffrent faith will not go to Heaven? I believe that there is a possibility that some people in other Christian religions could be saved, unless salvation is not the way they teach. Their way of worship may be off base,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone with the right teaching/doctrine on how to be saved (and who does in fact believe it) IS a Christian' date=' regardless of whatever other mess of doctrines they may have. Many Pentecostals still believe the right things about salvation, but add many extrabiblical junk to their practice.[/quote']

So Jim Bakker was a Christian even though he was an adulterer, a liar and a thief?

As far as I know the Mormons all say you have to have faith in Jesus to be saved. So why do you accept Pentecostals when you reject Mormons?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Giving tithes to God is personal' date=' and I don't believe that you have enough Biblical authority or knowledge to state just why God does what He does with people. The Bible does reveal that God does what He does to glorify Himself, so that sounds contradictory.[/quote']

This woman is following an un-Biblical doctrine and I rest my authority to discern the ways of God on the Bible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="flaja"]So Jim Bakker was a Christian even though he was an adulterer, a liar and a thief?

As far as I know the Mormons all say you have to have faith in Jesus to be saved. So why do you accept Pentecostals when you reject Mormons?[/quote]

Salvation isn't by works. I do not know what Bakker claimed to believe about salvation. Mormons believe in a works-based salvation and a different Jesus. Most Pentecostals do not. And I never said being a Pentecostal is what saves someone - the right believe in Christ does - and most Pentecostals do teach the right thing about Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption (that doesn't mean that everyone in those churches is saved - it is up to each individual to trust Christ for themselves - but no one can trust Christ where false doctrine about Him is taught).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Timothy"]I'm just saying that I can agree with you as little as I can agree with T. U. L. I. P. theology.[/quote]

If this is directed at me, I don?t subscribe fully to TULIP. I do believe that man without Christ is totally depraved, but I also believe that man has the free will to accept or reject Christ without any controlling input from God. I also believe that Christ offers salvation to everyone, not just a select few.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Jerry"]Salvation isn't by works. I do not know what Bakker claimed to believe about salvation. Mormons believe in a works-based salvation and a different Jesus. Most Pentecostals do not.[/quote]

You can document statistics for ?most? Pentecostals?

Where I live we have hundreds and hundreds of Pentecostal churches and most of them either accept or have women as pastor or co-pastors in direct contradiction to what Paul told the Corinthians about women keeping silent in church. How can these people be saved if they follow an un-Biblical doctrine?

Also, I have never known more than 2 Pentecostals (my elderly friend and her late husband) that were King James only, but even they were both willing to go to non-King James only churches. They were both willing to fellowship with people who used Bibles that said Jesus is not God. Can such Pentecostals legitimately have salvation?

[quote]And I never said being a Pentecostal is what saves someone - the right believe in Christ does - and most Pentecostals do teach the right thing about Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption (that doesn't mean that everyone in those churches is saved - it is up to each individual to trust Christ for themselves - but no one can trust Christ where false doctrine about Him is taught).[/quote]

And then they otherwise follow un-Godly doctrines. Some salvation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="flaja"]You can document statistics for ?most? Pentecostals?[/quote]

It's called research - I know where Pentecostals have stood on some of their main doctrines historically. No, I cannot speak for each individual Pentecostal, the same way I can't speak for each individual Baptist - but if they stand where Pentecostals have stood for the last 100 years, then I can get a general idea what they believe - and historically, many of them believe salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Which is the truth according to the Scriptures. That doesn't justify their wrong doctrine - but it also doesn't make them unsaved - GOD GUIDES HIS CHILDREN INTO THE TRUTH. You can't expect a lost person, who doesn't understand the Bible, to be completely right on in all their doctrine. When they get saved, as they get into the Word and apply it, then they will sort out their doctrine as they are led by the Lord.

[quote]Where I live we have hundreds and hundreds of Pentecostal churches and most of them either accept or have women as pastor or co-pastors in direct contradiction to what Paul told the Corinthians about women keeping silent in church. How can these people be saved if they follow an un-Biblical doctrine?

Also, I have never known more than 2 Pentecostals (my elderly friend and her late husband) that were King James only, but even they were both willing to go to non-King James only churches. They were both willing to fellowship with people who used Bibles that said Jesus is not God. Can such Pentecostals legitimately have salvation?[/quote]

It is not standards nor Bible versions that save a person - it is faith in Jesus Christ (and yes, built on the right foundation).

[quote]And then they otherwise follow un-Godly doctrines. Some salvation.[/quote]

Wow! From the mouth of the person with the wacked out ungodly doctrine of Anglo-Israelism. ARE YOU SURE YOU ARE SAVED? According to your view, a Christian can't have any faulty doctrines...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="kevinmiller"]You can't be saved and use different versions of the Bible? :uuhm:[/quote]

If your Bible says that Jesus isn?t God, wasn?t born of a Virgin or that He had origins, then you are not saved because you don?t have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Jerry"]and historically, many of them believe salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.[/quote]

But what Jesus do they believe in? If their Jesus isn?t the Jesus of the Bible, then they have no saving faith in Jesus at all.

[quote]That doesn't justify their wrong doctrine - but it also doesn't make them unsaved[/quote]

You can be saved with unsound doctrine? What fantasy world do you live in?

[quote]You can't expect a lost person, who doesn't understand the Bible, to be completely right on in all their doctrine.[/quote]

So the Pentecostals that you are so fond of are not completely right on all of their doctrine and thus don?t understand the Bible and thus are still lost.

[quote]It is not standards nor Bible versions that save a person - it is faith in Jesus Christ (and yes, built on the right foundation).[/quote]

But what standard tells you who Jesus Christ is? How do you verify that the Jesus you believe in is not one of the false Christs that Jesus warned us about?

[quote][quote]And then they otherwise follow un-Godly doctrines. Some salvation.[/quote]

Wow! From the mouth of the person with the wacked out ungodly doctrine of Anglo-Israelism.[/quote]

You have yet to present me with any proof from the Bible that Anglo-Israelism is wrong. But at any rate I don?t see how the fate and destiny of the lost tribes of Israel has anything to do with the process of salvation by faith in Christ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="flaja"]If your Bible says that Jesus isn?t God, wasn?t born of a Virgin or that He had origins, then you are not saved because you don?t have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Actually, that's not true.

For one, most Bible versions DOWNPLAY the doctrines of Christ, they do not completely remove them.

2) Having a particular version is not the same thing as believing all that that version says or doesn't say. I got led to Christ and given a Living Bible, within a month I got an NIV, a year later an NASV, took me four years of reading and studying the NASV before I was faced with the issue of Bible versions, then I became KJVonly. You have to read, study, and apply whatever version before you can say you believe what that version teaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Jerry"][quote="flaja"]If your Bible says that Jesus isn?t God, wasn?t born of a Virgin or that He had origins, then you are not saved because you don?t have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Actually, that's not true.

For one, most Bible versions DOWNPLAY the doctrines of Christ, they do not completely remove them.

2) Having a particular version is not the same thing as believing all that that version says or doesn't say. I got led to Christ and given a Living Bible, within a month I got an NIV, a year later an NASV, took me four years of reading and studying the NASV before I was faced with the issue of Bible versions, then I became KJVonly. You have to read, study, and apply whatever version before you can say you believe what that version teaches.[/quote]
Good answer. :thumb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flaja, do you mind not twisting what I have been saying. Read your Bible - there were true believers in the NT churches that had wrong doctrine, and they needed to be corrected. But they were still true believers. No, it doesn't make their wrong doctrine okay - but God also gives us time to grow and learn the truth too - and that comes AFTER salvation, not before - no one can understand the truth, and completely separate right from wrong doctrine, until the are saved and have the Holy Spirit opening up the Word of God to them.

There is a big difference between being wrong on foundational doctrines (ie. the fundamentals of the faith: such as how to be saved, who Jesus is, His blood shed and complete atonement, the Trinity, etc.) and being wrong on other doctrines (such as baptism, end times, etc.).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Jerry"][quote="flaja"]If your Bible says that Jesus isn?t God, wasn?t born of a Virgin or that He had origins, then you are not saved because you don?t have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Actually, that's not true.

For one, most Bible versions DOWNPLAY the doctrines of Christ, they do not completely remove them.[/quote]

The least bit of doubt cast by a single verse is enough to destroy an entire version of the Bible. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. There is no such thing as being a little heretical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="kevinmiller"][quote="Jerry"][quote="flaja"]If your Bible says that Jesus isn?t God, wasn?t born of a Virgin or that He had origins, then you are not saved because you don?t have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Actually, that's not true.

For one, most Bible versions DOWNPLAY the doctrines of Christ, they do not completely remove them.

2) Having a particular version is not the same thing as believing all that that version says or doesn't say. I got led to Christ and given a Living Bible, within a month I got an NIV, a year later an NASV, took me four years of reading and studying the NASV before I was faced with the issue of Bible versions, then I became KJVonly. You have to read, study, and apply whatever version before you can say you believe what that version teaches.[/quote]
Good answer. :thumb[/quote]

But the wrong answer, nethertheless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Jerry"]Flaja, do you mind not twisting what I have been saying. [/quote]

I haven't twisted anything. You have shown a marked willingness to give a pass to heretics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Jerry"][quote="flaja"]If your Bible says that Jesus isn?t God, wasn?t born of a Virgin or that He had origins, then you are not saved because you don?t have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Actually, that's not true.

For one, most Bible versions DOWNPLAY the doctrines of Christ, they do not completely remove them.

2) Having a particular version is not the same thing as believing all that that version says or doesn't say. I got led to Christ and given a Living Bible, within a month I got an NIV, a year later an NASV, took me four years of reading and studying the NASV before I was faced with the issue of Bible versions, then I became KJVonly. You have to read, study, and apply whatever version before you can say you believe what that version teaches.[/quote]
Excellent response!

Like you, Jerry, I was given a Living Bible after I got saved. I also was involved in a Bible study using Good News for Modern Man. I also used the NASB and NKJV. I never did like the NIV--although I had one, but never really used it. In 1976, two years after I was saved, I bought myself a KJV Open Bible (Thomas Nelson Publishers)--which I still have (it's falling apart, but I have some really good notes in there). I used the NASB and NKJV for a long time (about 6 years) before I was faced with the Bible version issue. It wasn't until 1999 that I became KJV only. I did my own personal study of Bible versions and it was through the ministries of David Cloud and the Fundamental Evangelistic Association that I did become KJV only.

Was I still saved during that time? Flaja seems to say NO--but God says YES. I'll stick with what God says. When I put my faith and trust in the finished work of the LORD Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary in 1974, I became His child and I KNOW He saved my soul. I didn't lose my salvation because I was using a different version than the KJV--I was ignorant of such an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 42 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...