"Gone liberal" - a complete package?

[matie-k]

I've heard talk of people "going liberal" or something like that. I've also heard people talk about those who go liberal and that soon everything else in their lives will slide because they've "gone liberal". For instance, when a person/church/group goes off using modern versions, then some will think it's a given that they will eventually all be pant-wearing(women), rock-n-rolling, new-evangelicals. Or some may think that if the women start wearing pants, either a divorce or church split is sure enough in the works and that the church has "gone liberal".

However, this is not how I've seen things in the USA, and we've been to lots of churches. Some are using the KJB, and all the women have dresses to their ankles, but their music standards are very low and the church is full of selfish gossips. Some don't use the KJB exclusively, but the music standards are very high and they're all about fervently serving God. And in other churches, the women are in pants, but in everything else they've got real high standards, and they use the KJB.

I'm not really sure what my point is in this. I know some people on this forum have been labeled liberal before, but on the other hand, I know those very people have very high standards. How do you define the term "gone liberal"? What is a "liberal christian"?

[kevinmiller]

I think it can be fairly subjective. It really depends, I think, on what group you are with. Those with higher standards will tend to see you as liberal and those with lower as very conservative. :dunno:

[matie-k]

So true, Kevin.

[Psalms18_28]

I have heard churches let women wear pants to church and just let the Holy Spirit convince them. They are willing to teach the those ladies about modesty, though.

[zealyouthguy]

liberal = Anywhere left of me.

[LindaR]

liberal = Anywhere left of me.

I agree!

Here are 3 links to David Cloud's article on New Evangelicalism which describes what is happening in today's churches:

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fundamen1.htm
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fundamen2.htm
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fundamen3.htm

When people begin to question the inspiration, authority, and inerrancy of God's Word, that is where the "seeds of liberalism" take root. I think this is what is happening in churches which use the MVs. Everything goes downhill from there.

[matie-k]

liberal = Anywhere left of me.

Are you speaking "tongue in cheek"?

[Jerry]

I think this will in evident in individuals, families or churches that had higher standards to begin with - and then cast some of them aside. Eventually more will go. Our walks go downhill once we start telling God no in certain areas of our lives. If someone never had those standards to begin with, you probably won't see any overall decline - but in fact might see them working on certain areas as they mature in their walk with the Lord.

[zealyouthguy]

Are you speaking "tongue in cheek"?

:loll:

Sometimes few words speak great meaning.

[Guest Guest]

Well, first of all... no one is perfect, and no one can uphold every standard we're supposed to (that's pretty obvious in a lot of IFB churches). I've seen IFB churches where they're against EVERYTHING (pants on women, bad music, tv, movies, you name it... they're against it), yet the people who hold to those standards get this "better than thou" attitude, because they're focused more on living a perfect lifestyle than really caring about others and studying their Bibles.

I think we're often too quick to judge other people for what's on the outside... when it's who they are on the inside that matters. I know some girls that wear pants and listen to a little bit of country music occasionally (both are things that a lot of IFB preachers would preach STRONGLY against!), but they love God and study their Bibles and have the most caring attitude toward other Christians. I also know some kids that grew up in IFB homes, have all the standards and know where to prove them from Scripture, yet they don't care about those who don't hold to their standards and they have a stuck-up attitude about it.

[Jerry]

I understand what you are saying - but little compromises are not justified just because someone seems more loving and dedicated to the Lord.

Song of Solomon 2:15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.

God wants us to deal with the little things too - such as our entertainment. Of course, there is an element of growth involved - perhaps the person listening to the few country songs does not have enough discernment yet to know what is wrong with them. If she did, and still chose to listen to them, then that is backsliding and not pleasing to God.

[Guest Guest]

Oh I totally agree that purposely compromising is wrong, but what about people who don't honestly believe the Bible is against what they do? Like the pants on women thing for example... I know MANY people who don't believe it's clearly forbidden in Scripture (and to be honest, I can't prove to them that it is... you can only use opinion because there isn't a verse in the Bible that says "women shall not wear pants", it just says "that which pertains to a man" which just means "men's clothing"... ). I don't mean to start a debate here over that issue, cuz that horse has been beaten way too many times...

But I just was wondering about what you thought about that. I don't have a problem being close friends with girls who wear pants and listen to some "country" music. Being friends with this girl in particular that I'm talking about has actually strengthened my relationship with the Lord, because she's always such an encouragement to do right (meaning, reading my Bible.. praying .. etc.). I'd rather be close to a friend like that than some of the other teens I know who don't really seem to care about studying the Bible, but they know how to live a "perfect" life.

[Jerry]

The pants issue is something that has to be studied out. Perhaps you could question your friend as to why she is listening to secular music and not Christian music (I assume you are referring to secular country). Ask her to think about the lyrics and compare them to the Word of God.

[Guest Guest]

Oh, she listens to lots of good Christian music too. She just listens to the "cleaner" love songs that come out of country music... she hates the nasty secular music. She doesn't even like songs that go directly against Scripture. (love songs don't go against Scripture IMO, as long as the lyrics are clean and don't go against Scripture)

Anyhow, my friend's life isn't on trial here, I'm just giving an example...

[Jerry]

I didn't mean to put her on any kind of trial. Just the same as I would any of my own friends. Hey, why are you listening to the secular radio? Lots of junk on there. Wow, did you hear what that song just said? Do you have any good music you can put on instead?... Challenging our friends to listen to something better than the lost world offers.