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Bakershalfdozen

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This is from KJBPrincess' wedding planning thread.

I split this section into a new topic. I'm not trying to pick on you, KJBprincess. After reading something from my son's homeschool material, I just thought it would make a good discussion.

To everyone: In this thread, please discuss superstitions you have encountered.


KJBprincess wrote:

(plus, I'd rather have the 12th than the 13th anyway, because 13 really isn't a good number in the Bible...hehe)




Majorly :ot: :lol What is Biblically wrong with 13?
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:goodpost: :thumb

We can be very thankful that the LORD Jesus set us free from any and all superstitions and bondages thereof.

Observance and carefulness of signs, wonders, and any such-like stuff is all borne of bondage from Satan. We are called to victory and are free to serve the LORD.

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Well, I still can't find it.. but I still don't like the number 13, even though I know there's no "evil" attached to any number. I just know that certain numbers represent some things (like 7 represents God's perfection), and Biblical numerics is an interesting subject.

Anyhow... the subject's wayyy off-topic now. I don't think it should matter to anyone else what numbers I like and don't like anyway. It's my wedding! :Bleh

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This discussion and

The one about Halloween where ZYG was saying that God made October 31 and that we should not give it to the devil but rather glorify God

And the following article I am going to post all made me wonder what superstitions you have encountered, still believe, have overcome, etc.


The Study Of Numbers

During the early Middle Ages, the Catholic Church considered arithmetic to be evil. "How can the science of numbers be good when it is advanced by the pagan Greeks and Arabs?" the church rulers argued. A person who was good at figures was often thought to be a magician. When a scholar wrote a book on geometry, he was accused of dabbling in black magic.

Finally, a brave teacher named Rabanus Maurus decided that numbers could not be bad, because Jesus had said that the very hairs of our heads are numbered. Rabanus began to teach his pupils arithmetic, and gradually the science of counting and measuring by numbers became accepted.
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I don't believe in superstitions... except the 666 mark (Even if they put it there out of mockery, they don't know is that they are doing devil's work anyway. No christians would laugh at stuffs like that)

on friday the 13, I will be out and shopping.

I did have a bad Oct. 31 this year though. I have a narrow driveway with big stone wall on each side.. and after all these years, My dented my van for the first time on the stone wall.

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Okie dokie, continuing right along with superstions. :lol

Here are some that my parents, even though they claimed to be true, genuinely born-again believers, had the following criteria by which they lived.

***Plant NOTHING in the ground (((((we had a humongous 1-1/2 acre garden and all manner of other good stuff growing))))) unless the signs of the moon and stars siad that it was ok to plant. We planted root veggies in the down sign of the moon, so the roots would go deep and grow huge. We planted above ground veggies in the up-sign of the moon so the plants would grow big and tall. Th signs of the stars had to be right too.

***Don't tell anybody anything at all about future plans or they will fall flat.

***Throw a little salt over the shoulder to ward off evil if we spilled any.

***Even though cats are good and excellent mouse-ridders, black cats will bring all manner of bad luck.

***DO NOT EVEN THINK OF BEGINNING THE DAY WITHOUT CHECKING THE HOROSCOPE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!

***Any and all Halloween traditions and customs must be followed to the letter for good luck thruout the coming year. Failure to observe this is asking for trouble of the worst degree.

***For New Years dinner there must be big beans and little beans eaten for financial prosperity thruout the year. The big beans pay the big bills and the little beans pay the little bills.

***Do not work on the Saturday between Good Friday and Easter. It is extremely bad luck to do so. Whatever you do will fall flat, and go bad.

***Do not touch a needle on Sundays. Especially do not sew anything. "Whatever stitches you put in on Sunday you will pull out on Monday."

***Do not plant anything on Ascension Day. (((((((It's 40 days after Easter and always on Thursday.))))))) The ants will eat it.

***Special numbers were exceedingly crucial::::::: E.G. If we had something occur and it involved the number 13 or 666 it was very baaaaaaaaaaaaaad. We did what we could to have it changed. E.G. One time dad got a license plate with the number 13 in it. He went to the court house and paid a hefty fee and got another one.

There were a bazillion others but these are right off the top of my head.

I thank God that He has delivered me from any and all bondage of this nature.

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Okie dokie, continuing right along with superstions. :lol

Here are some that my parents, even though they claimed to be true, genuinely born-again believers, had the following criteria by which they lived.

***Plant NOTHING in the ground (((((we had a humongous 1-1/2 acre garden and all manner of other good stuff growing))))) unless the signs of the moon and stars siad that it was ok to plant. We planted root veggies in the down sign of the moon, so the roots would go deep and grow huge. We planted above ground veggies in the up-sign of the moon so the plants would grow big and tall. Th signs of the stars had to be right too.

***Don't tell anybody anything at all about future plans or they will fall flat.

***Throw a little salt over the shoulder to ward off evil if we spilled any.

***Even though cats are good and excellent mouse-ridders, black cats will bring all manner of bad luck.

***DO NOT EVEN THINK OF BEGINNING THE DAY WITHOUT CHECKING THE HOROSCOPE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!

***Any and all Halloween traditions and customs must be followed to the letter for good luck thruout the coming year. Failure to observe this is asking for trouble of the worst degree.

***For New Years dinner there must be big beans and little beans eaten for financial prosperity thruout the year. The big beans pay the big bills and the little beans pay the little bills.

***Do not work on the Saturday between Good Friday and Easter. It is extremely bad luck to do so. Whatever you do will fall flat, and go bad.

***Do not touch a needle on Sundays. Especially do not sew anything. "Whatever stitches you put in on Sunday you will pull out on Monday."

***Do not plant anything on Ascension Day. (((((((It's 40 days after Easter and always on Thursday.))))))) The ants will eat it.

***Special numbers were exceedingly crucial::::::: E.G. If we had something occur and it involved the number 13 or 666 it was very baaaaaaaaaaaaaad. We did what we could to have it changed. E.G. One time dad got a license plate with the number 13 in it. He went to the court house and paid a hefty fee and got another one.

There were a bazillion others but these are right off the top of my head.

I thank God that He has delivered me from any and all bondage of this nature.


Hey! You forgot the 7 year bad luck when you break a mirror!! Why do people propagate such nonesense???? I was just 6 or 7 when I broke a small mirror accidentally, and some teasing adult told me I would have 7 years bad luck....I was scared to death and immediately sat down and calculated at what age my life would return to normal. I've heard the farming/moon thing before and I've heard that many farmers take it quite seriously! Like you, I am glad the Lord delivered us from that type of bondage!!
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Hey! You forgot the 7 year bad luck when you break a mirror!! Why do people propagate such nonesense???? I was just 6 or 7 when I broke a small mirror accidentally' date=' and some teasing adult told me I would have 7 years bad luck....I was scared to death and immediately sat down and calculated at what age my life would return to normal. I've heard the farming/moon thing before and I've heard that many farmers take it quite seriously! Like you, I am glad the Lord delivered us from that type of bondage!![/quote']

Me too I'm glad to be delivered from all of that. Now my wife and I look at everything that God made (which includes numbers) and rejoice in them.
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I don't think the 13th day of a month is evil (except for in reference to a passage in Esther, where the 13th day evil was decided upon, and another 13th day was chosen as the execution of that evil deed**) - but the Bible does use the number 13 in various places to represent rebellion. Nimrod, who built the tower of Babel is the 13th generation from creation.

Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

Now, I don't make a big thing out of verse numbers, but I do find it interesting. Revelation 13 is where we see the world rebelling against God and receiving the mark of the beast. 2 Samuel 13 is where David's family fell apart and Absalom rebelled.

Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

13 things, indicating the rebellion of the human heart - Matthew 15 shows 7 things, indicating the complete wickedness of our hearts apart from Christ.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

13 categories (assuming "murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers" is the same thing).

Some more:

Genesis 14:4 Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and in the thirteenth year they rebelled.

**Esther 3:12-13 Then were the king's scribes called on the thirteenth day of the first month, and there was written according to all that Haman had commanded unto the king's lieutenants, and to the governors that were over every province, and to the rulers of every people of every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language; in the name of king Ahasuerus was it written, and sealed with the king's ring. And the letters were sent by posts into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day, even upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and to take the spoil of them for a prey.

Kings of Judah: 7 good, 13 wicked.

Judges contains 12 judges - in a book dealing with the rebellion of the nation of Israel, ending on the note of apostasy. Othniel, Ehud, Shamgar, Barak, Gideon, Tola, Jair, Jephthah, Ibzan, Elon, Abdon, Samson, Eli being the 13th, and Samuel the 14th (showing the complete reign of the Judges - just like Matthew shows 14 kings, 14 people in each section).

1 Kings 7:1 But Solomon was building his own house thirteen years, and he finished all his house.

Solomon took seven years to build the temple - and 13 to build his own house! To me, that indicates self-seeking, a heart that is now beginning to wander from the Lord.

These are all that come to mind right now - I would not interpret any passages a certain way based on a number used in them, but it is significant to note what numbers are associated with which events/passages in the Bible.

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Thanks Jerry. I had other things to do and didn't have time to research that today.

I'm not superstitious about dates, and the choice to use the 12th instead of the 13th wasn't just because of the number... it's also because Saturday is more convenient for a wedding than Sunday. It's not like I'm going to think I'm stuck with a rebellious child if I have a kid born on the 13th of a month someday, but I'd just rather not plan a special day with that date. Personal preference, not conviction. :smile

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For every bad thing happening in a verse numbered 13 I can show many 13th verses where there are good things happening. In fact there are a whole lot more of them.

I know many people who make a whole cultish religion out of Biblical numerology. what always amuses me is how they force the numbers to mean various things. :lol::lol::lol:

kathie, I'm not saying you do this, but I know people that do.

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There are so many superstitions here in China. I'm to the point that if I have a choice, I'd like to use the "bad" numbers/days just to prove that those superstitions are meaningless. One time when we were allowed to choose a phone number, there were a bunch with the number 4 in them, and we chose the one with the most number 4's! (4 here sounds like the word death, so it's bad) Then, a few times my husband has been bargaining over something, and they don't want to settle on the number 250 because that number is bad luck. (because of some expression/story referring to an idiot or something..not sure of the meaning behind that one)

Also, there are good numbers - two of the main ones being 6 and 8. We see lots of 6's in multiple form here (often as 666 or 6666).

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I don't think the 13th day of a month is evil (except for in reference to a passage in Esther, where the 13th day evil was decided upon, and another 13th day was chosen as the execution of that evil deed**) - but the Bible does use the number 13 in various places to represent rebellion. Nimrod, who built the tower of Babel is the 13th generation from creation.

Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

Now, I don't make a big thing out of verse numbers, but I do find it interesting. Revelation 13 is where we see the world rebelling against God and receiving the mark of the beast. 2 Samuel 13 is where David's family fell apart and Absalom rebelled.

Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

13 things, indicating the rebellion of the human heart - Matthew 15 shows 7 things, indicating the complete wickedness of our hearts apart from Christ.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

13 categories (assuming "murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers" is the same thing).

Some more:

Genesis 14:4 Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and in the thirteenth year they rebelled.

**Esther 3:12-13 Then were the king's scribes called on the thirteenth day of the first month, and there was written according to all that Haman had commanded unto the king's lieutenants, and to the governors that were over every province, and to the rulers of every people of every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language; in the name of king Ahasuerus was it written, and sealed with the king's ring. And the letters were sent by posts into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day, even upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and to take the spoil of them for a prey.

Kings of Judah: 7 good, 13 wicked.

Judges contains 12 judges - in a book dealing with the rebellion of the nation of Israel, ending on the note of apostasy. Othniel, Ehud, Shamgar, Barak, Gideon, Tola, Jair, Jephthah, Ibzan, Elon, Abdon, Samson, Eli being the 13th, and Samuel the 14th (showing the complete reign of the Judges - just like Matthew shows 14 kings, 14 people in each section).

1 Kings 7:1 But Solomon was building his own house thirteen years, and he finished all his house.

Solomon took seven years to build the temple - and 13 to build his own house! To me, that indicates self-seeking, a heart that is now beginning to wander from the Lord.

These are all that come to mind right now - I would not interpret any passages a certain way based on a number used in them, but it is significant to note what numbers are associated with which events/passages in the Bible.


The verse numbers mean absolutely nothing. The New Testament ones were invented in the 16th century and the Hebrew ones are of not much greater antiquity. Also, some of the list included are different depending upon the text one prefers. There is no indication I can see in scripture that 13 was seen to be a significant number in any way. In Norse mythology it is a "lucky" number. This is a relatively modern superstition with no applicability to the Bible. Numerology in general is almost always way over-rated when it comes to scriptural applications. There are a very few significant numbers, and some cases where they do make a difference, but the sort of exercise here is pointless in the extreme and somewhat dangerous as well (to the extent that anyone start to put any stock in this method). Jewish "Cabalah" is very similar to this approach.

Love,
Madeline
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Your opinion - there are many sound believers of the faith that believe that numbers in the Bible are significant. And, no, it is not caballah - that is when you make the meaning of a passage change based on the numbers in it or the numbers of letters in a word. What I have done is show how the number is used in various places.

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Your opinion - there are many sound believers of the faith that believe that numbers in the Bible are significant. And' date=' no, it is not caballah - that is when you make the meaning of a passage change based on the numbers in it or the numbers of letters in a word. What I have done is show how the number is used in various places.[/quote']

First of all, I didn't say that numbers don't have any significance in the bible because there are numbers which do carry meanings (e.g., the number 7 and the # of the beast). And secondly, I didn't say it IS caballah but rather it's a "similar" approach. Having a fixation and putting too much emphasis on numbers can lead to an obsession and take our focus away from the Lord.
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First of all' date=' I didn't say that numbers don't have any significance in the bible because there are numbers which do carry meanings (e.g., the number 7 and the # of the beast). And secondly, I didn't say it IS caballah but rather it's a "similar" approach. Having a fixation and putting too much emphasis on numbers can lead to an obsession and take our focus away from the Lord.[/quote']

Noticing what numbers God has put in the Bible and how those numbers are used is not being fixated on it. And again, what I have presented has nothing similar whatsoever to caballah. I am not making a passage mean something based on a number - though I am seeing how numbers are used in certain contexts.

If I spent all my time studying out numbers, I would be fixated - however, if I notice them AS I am studying out various passages, that is not. Actually, if we refused to acknowledge what God has placed in His Word, we would be guilty of overlooking what He wanted us to see.
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You're twisting my words again... I had not written that you had developed a fixation, but rather having a fixation with numbers CAN lead to a morbid obsession which can sidetrack our focus in doing God's will. Jerry, not everyone is an "expert" in biblical numerology as you are, and you have to realise that such practises can stunt spiritual growth in those who are seeking to mature from the meat of the Word. Both Caballah and biblical numerology are similar to the extent that both practises assigns meanings to numbers.

Love,
Madeline
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I'm sorry - I was not attempting to twist anything, but to clarify what Biblical numerology is. Caballah involves reading between the lines in the Bible - making up meaning of Bible passages based on the number of letters in a word/name, or the number of words in a sentence - then taking those "conclusions" and forcing them into the passage. For example, teaching that circumcision was essential to salvation because in one passage where God spoke of His covenant, if the words are divided a certain way (and possibly given different vowels) they can spell circumcision; thereby "showing" their forced doctrine.

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I'm sorry - I was not attempting to twist anything' date=' but to clarify what Biblical numerology is. Caballah involves reading between the lines in the Bible - making up meaning of Bible passages based on the number of letters in a word/name, or the number of words in a sentence - then taking those "conclusions" and forcing them into the passage. For example, teaching that circumcision was essential to salvation because in one passage where God spoke of His covenant, if the words are divided a certain way (and possibly given different vowels) they can spell circumcision; thereby "showing" their forced doctrine.[/quote']

Ok, caballah is a bad comparison and I actually do believe that numbers are occasionally significant in the Bible - when and where there are biblical indications of the same. This is very rare, however. To use an analogy, one spoonful of honey may be beneficial, but 500 lbs. will kill you. And that doesn't mean that everything in-between is neither good nor bad. 10 lbs. may put you in the hospital. I don't see a single thing in the 13-list that I would consider biblically significant, but it is very clear that it took a long to time to collect and consider and argue for. All that time and effort could have been used to learn something real about scripture, whereas on the other hand convincing oneself of the importance in scripture of things that are not really there is a recipe for spiritual error. Investing meaning in passages where meaning does not exist may not be changing the meaning, but that is largely a difference without a true distinction. Either way, such things delude oneself and others, in the same that Cabalah is wont to do.

Love,
Madeline
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I don't see a single thing in the 13-list that I would consider biblically significant' date=' but it is very clear that it took a long to time to collect and consider and argue for. All that time and effort could have been used to learn something real about scripture, whereas on the other hand convincing oneself of the importance in scripture of things that are not really there is a recipe for spiritual error.[/quote']

Why is noticing how 13s are used in Scripture any less significant than noticing how sevens are used? Someone would have to be deliberate blind not to see the significance of sevens, from Genesis to Revelation - and we don't have to force anything to see the sevens and the patterns given. Ask Bakers for some of the sevens in John and Revelation - we had some neat threads on those. So why are other numbers not important. They are in the Bible - I do not spend time looking for them, but I notice numbers and types when I see them. 13 is not as significant as sevens, eights, tens, and some other numbers, but it is still there.

For example: Why did I notice the 13 in Mark 7? Because I saw there were seven things in Matthew 15, indicating the complete wickedness of man's heart. Why 13 in a parallel passage? So it stuck in my mind. Then I saw other passages where 13 was used - over time as I studied the Bible.

I am certainly not telling anyone to get fixated on any one part, theme, issue, book, etc. of the Bible. Just like people who get so caught up in the endtimes that they neglect the rest of the Bible, people can be unbalanced in their approach to the Word of God - the solution is to study the whole Bible - to be observant of all we see in the Scriptures as we are studying and reading it.
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Jerry, I thought I made it clear that I DO believe that numbers have some sort of significance (please read my previous posts). You asked "Why is noticing how 13s are used in Scripture any less significant than noticing how sevens are used?" then stated "it is not as significant as sevens, eights, tens, and some other numbers, but it is still there." So are 13's any more significant then 7's or not? Do you see where this is going? Putting too much emphasis on biblical numerology can take our attention away from learning some real truth about scripture. I'd rather swallow the meat of the word then waste my time with foolish and ignorant disputes.

Love,
Madeline

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My Mother was superstitious to a degree. If someone knocked over a salt shaker she would pick it up and throw some salt over her left shoulder. She always told us not to walk under ladders, open umbrellas in the house or break any mirrors. I always thought of these things as funny and not to be taken seriously. I guess black cats didn't count. We usually had any where from 1 to a dozen of them at any one time. CJP56

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I have a question in regard to this subject. Is it sinful to be superstitious? I know that there are some verses against witchcraft in the OT such as Nahum 3:4, 2Kings 9:22, Exodus 22:18 and some more, but honestly, I don't know in which category are superstitions, could it be evil imaginations?

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I would say it would be wrong to be fearful because of superstitions. I don't know what the definition of that word would be - but it is basically being controlled by fear based on falsehoods. God is in complete control - we can dig into His Word and find out what He says about the things that concern us; therefore there is no reason to be superstitious.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

MANY, many times in Scripture we are told to fear not. Probably every situation we could be faced with is addressed in Scripture, and we (ie. believers in Christ) are given the victory over all of them through God's promises.

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If you want to see "superstitions"...just walk into an RCC at a funeral service. Just one example includes...the priest swinging a "smoke-filled" canister hanging from a chain over the coffin. This is "supposed" to take the spirit of the person up to heaven. :loco

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Another place to meet superstitious people is on a baseball field. Baseball players do so many things in order to keep from ruining a hot streak or to break out of a slump. For example, if I'm pitching, I won't start a game without a mouthful of sunflower seeds. If I'm unhappy with my pitching, I'll blame the seeds and stop eating them. I never bat with seeds, either. That's just one of my many little quirks when I play ball. Every player has several.

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If you want to see "superstitions"...just walk into an RCC at a funeral service. Just one example includes...the priest swinging a "smoke-filled" canister hanging from a chain over the coffin. This is "supposed" to take the spirit of the person up to heaven. :loco

That is quite strange for a funeral service. Because I came out of the Eastern church (which is a superstitious system) I carried with me some little baggages like this one but I definitely must leave everything behind.
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Superstitions are based upon the concept of fear and "luck". Scripture is clear that God is in control of all things, therefore there is and can be no such thing as "luck".

If we hide in our home or expect "bad luck" all day on a Friday the 13th, for example, we are basically saying that we fear the "bad luck" of that day more than we trust God to care for us on that day just like all days.

If we carry a rabbits foot, have a "lucky" bowling shirt, or a "lucky" game hat, or a "good luck" necklace or something like this we putting our faith in these objects to bring good things our way rather than God.

Superstitions often involve idolotry (because we put an object ahead of God), unreasonable fear which leads us to not put our full trust and faith in God at certain times, and is bound up in sin in all its forms.

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Yes, and baseball players will wear the same pair of sox's all season with out washing them hoping that is the reason they don't lose. How stupid.

I'm a follower of Jesus Christ, I don't believe in luck, whether good or bad.

I suppose some people will not walk under a ladder for fear of bad luck, I don't walk under the ladder just in case the person that is on it drops something that might hit me on my head.

Some people will turn back if a black cat walks in front of them, that does not bother me the least bit, I keep going.

Superstition and God just does not seem to go together.

As others have said, God still sets on the throne and this world is still under His control, anything that takes place, He is the One who allows it.

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