Women being pastors Should they really?

[kevinmiller]

Praise God for the New Covenant and the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ! Praise God that even the sin of wanting to serve God as a Pastor by a woman is cleansed under the same blood that covers the sin of gossip, hatred, sowing discord among the brethren. What a might God we serve!

:goodpost:

[futurehope]

First of all, Kevin, I say again, it's not judging her or anyone else, it's judging their actions and where their heart is with God - and, as I think you posted in another topic, outward actions and speech reveal the inward condition of the heart. It's not about being Baptist. I know several Baptist organizations that are way off when it comes to what God's word has to say about doctrine. The problem here is that you are talking about religions, which are man made and have their own doctrines and we are talking about the only true doctrine (which is only found in God's word). And not one of us is wanting to stone or even hurt this woman for that matter. We would like to see her repent and be reconciled to God to serve Him in a way that is fitting according to His word. As far as being perfect - not something that any of us have claimed to be. However, we have chosen and openly claimed to doing what this woman refuses: to believe in the doctrine of the one and only perfect God. And one day, may we all be made perfect in him. Just remember Kevin, "We wrestle not against flesh..."

Your response Kevin??

[futurehope]

You don't see how a woman proclaiming that the word of God says that she should be a pastor is a blastant attack against His word and doctrines? How much more so could it be??

Kevin??

[kevinmiller]

Kevin??

I'll get to the other post later, I have a class to teach. I didn't answer these two cause I didn't see much point in it, to be honest. They don't make much sense.

I'll answer this quickly. I don't see it as being a blatant attack on the Bible any more than disobeying your parents is a blatant attack. Both are wrong and both are wrong equally. If she was proclaiming that the Bible says that she should be a pastor, that might be more serious, but I've never heard a woman pastor do that. I think it comes more out of ignorance of what the Bible says on the issue rather than imagining something is there that isn't.

[Jerry]

Obviously Kevin does not care about obeying God's Word and wants to justify anything as long as the person says, "I love Jesus." Sorry, the Bible still says this:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

You can spin the truth anyway you want, Kevin, but it still comes back to this: someone's claims to love God are false if they do not involve a love for truth and obedience to God's Word.

I never proclaimed to be perfect - but when I am walking in rebellion (ie. backsliding), you don't hear me mouthing how much "I love God" and bragging about my misguided zeal. When I am backsliding, I don't love God - neither does any other person on this planet, regardless of how else you might try to justify their actions.

[futurehope]

:amen: Right on!!

I'll get to the other post later, I have a class to teach. I didn't answer these two cause I didn't see much point in it, to be honest. They don't make much sense.

I'll answer this quickly. I don't see it as being a blatant attack on the Bible any more than disobeying your parents is a blatant attack. Both are wrong and both are wrong equally. If she was proclaiming that the Bible says that she should be a pastor, that might be more serious, but I've never heard a woman pastor do that. I think it comes more out of ignorance of what the Bible says on the issue rather than imagining something is there that isn't.

So you honestly are saying that you think this woman doesn't know what the Bible says about the requirements of being a pastor?? She is claiming to be a pastor- which by definition would proclaim that she understands the teachings of God and is capable of teaching the herself. Do you really believe it is a case of ignorance in her case or yours??

And might I add that someone committing a sin and knowing that it was sin is far different than someone committing an act of teaching false doctrine and then claiming that they haven't!!

[kevinmiller]

Obviously Kevin does not care about obeying God's Word and wants to justify anything as long as the person says, "I love Jesus." Sorry, the Bible still says this:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

You can spin the truth anyway you want, Kevin, but it still comes back to this: someone's claims to love God are false if they do not involve a love for truth and obedience to God's Word.

I never proclaimed to be perfect - but when I am walking in rebellion (ie. backsliding), you don't hear me mouthing how much "I love God" and bragging about my misguided zeal. When I am backsliding, I don't love God - neither does any other person on this planet, regardless of how else you might try to justify their actions.

I don't think you responded to my last post at all...

Tell me Jerry, do you keep all of Christ's commands? All of them?
Of course not, then I guess I should assume you don't love God?

[kevinmiller]

Right on!!



So you honestly are saying that you think this woman doesn't know what the Bible says about the requirements of being a pastor?? She is claiming to be a pastor- which by definition would proclaim that she understands the teachings of God and is capable of teaching the herself. Do you really believe it is a case of ignorance in her case or yours??

And might I add that someone committing a sin and knowing that it was sin is far different than someone committing an act of teaching false doctrine and then claiming that they haven't!!

And you seem to think she does know. The fact of the matter is, neither one of us knows, which is why we can't judge another man's servant.

I don't quite follow what you're trying to say in the second paragraph of your post.

[kevinmiller]

Your response Kevin??

Okay, I'll do my best to give you a response to this since you want one. If you are judging her heart and her actions, what's left to judge? Yet, you claim to not be judging her. Go figure. Of all things, the heart is what we should be judging the least because the Bible tells us that we can't know it. Only God can know the heart.

I'm glad you don't claim to be perfect, then there shouldn't be any more issues with your calling her out for her own imperfectness. :thumb

[JerryNumbers]

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matt 7:18-20 (KJV)

Of course, one has to have a understanding of the Bible to know them by their fruit. For instant.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15 (KJV)

One has to study the Bible where they can rightly divide the truth, know the truth, if they don't them will find them self accepting and defending those who go completely against God's teachings within the Bible, doing this they will lead many off into false teachings.

Of course now days they be many who don't pay the least bit attention to such verses as these.

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2 Thess 3:14 (KJV)

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Romans 16:17 (KJV)

6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
2 Thess 3:6 (KJV)

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thess 2:15 (KJV)

10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
Titus 3:10-11 (KJV)

If anyone points out what is wrong, rebuke them, they jump in an defend them.

13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Titus 1:13 (KJV)

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Tim 4:2-4 (KJV)

Seems to me that time has come where many will not endure sound doctrine, if you try and rebuke them, show them in the Bible where they are wrong, many times they will attack you, pointing out your shortcoming, that is the only defense they have, they just do not want good solid Bible teachings, it just don't fit in with their goals.

[Jerry]

Tell me Jerry, do you keep all of Christ's commands? All of them?
Of course not, then I guess I should assume you don't love God?

Not when I am disobeying Him - AND NEITHER DO YOU.

[kevinmiller]

Not when I am disobeying Him - AND NEITHER DO YOU.

Perhaps willfully disobeying Christ's commands would indicate a lack of love for Him. However, when you are not obeying something out of ignorance or lack of knowledge or understanding, it doesn't show that you don't love God, it shows that you are a human who will never reach perfectness until Heaven. I believe that each and every one of us is in error in some belief or in some action every day of our lives. It's our human nature and God uses us despite ourselves.

[trc123]

I have to admit, that I can't think of a day in the last 29 years that I have been saved that I walked before the Lord in total "uprightness." Praise the Lord Jesus Christ that even though I sin each day he doesn't look at me through the blood as being in a continual state of sinning. Praise God he sees me as right with him through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ!

I'm so glad God doesn't judge me with the same judgement that men make! Praise God! Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!

[kevinmiller]

I have to admit, that I can't think of a day in the last 29 years that I have been saved that I walked before the Lord in total "uprightness." Praise the Lord Jesus Christ that even though I sin each day he doesn't look at me through the blood as being in a continual state of sinning. Praise God he sees me as right with him through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ!

I'm so glad God doesn't judge me with the same judgement that men make! Praise God! Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!

:amen:

[Jerry]

Perhaps willfully disobeying Christ's commands would indicate a lack of love for Him. However' date=' when you are not obeying something out of ignorance or lack of knowledge or understanding, it doesn't show that you don't love God, it shows that you are a human who will never reach perfectness until Heaven. I believe that each and every one of us is in error in some belief or in some action every day of our lives. It's our human nature and God uses us despite ourselves.[/quote']

A woman becoming a pastor is not a small mistep, not a temporary slip or fall - it is a deliberate choice. As I have already stated, if she does not know enough Bible to know whether she qualifies for that position of church leadership, then she has no business being a pastor in the first place! A pastor is to be apt to teach, to be spiritually mature - that comes with applying (and living) Bible knowledge.

All Christians sin - every single one of us - however, there is a world of difference between STUMBLING temporarily in an area and WALKING contrary to God's Word. The second one (if the person truly is saved) is backliding - and noone loves God or is in right fellowship with Him while they are walking in darkness. You can argue with God if you want on that one:

1 John 1:5-10 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.