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What doctrines do other churches practice


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Free Presbyterian (not to be confused with mainline Presbyterian) is a fundemental church which preaches the Gospel. They have a couple of different ideals, such as believing women should wear hats as the head covering, etc...

I used to attend a Free Pres church. The preaching is very good there. I now attend an Independent Baptist church.

Some people would say they are Calvinist, but the Free Pres. Church I attended preached "whosoever will" not election...(although we have to accept that the Bible speaks about election AND the "whosoever wills")


That is basically my experience with Free P's, too, except that they also baptize babies and believe in a mid-trib rapture. Was that true of your church?
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Catholic's believe that baptism plays a "part" in your salvation. But you are not saved "through" baptism.
The official teaching on salvation is:
Salvation through God's "grace".

Once you have God's grace (repent, asking him to be your personal lord and savor, etc.)
Then you are called to respond. It is a two-fold response. We respond through having Faith in Jesus, and doing good works (as apposed to bad works which are done for your own personal gain. Good works are done out of love for God). Faith AND works.

In addition, Catholics believe you can lose your salvation. But God is slow to anger, and rich in mercy. So we must repent again, and again, every time we fall from grace. And start the process over again.

I am summarizing Catholic teaching, but I'm been Catholic for 30 years and if you want to read the teaching yourself, you can read the on line "Catechism of the Catholic Church". It is "The" book of Catholic teaching.

Hope that helps you. Best of Luck!
Julie

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ptwild,

I am not seeking conflict but must respectfully disagree with your statement. The following statements are taken from the Anglican Catchesim.

Q. What is Holy Baptism?
A. Holy Baptism is the sacrament by which God adopts us as his children and makes us members of Christ's Body, the Church, and inheritors of the kingdom of God.

Q. What is the inward and spiritual grace in Baptism?
A. The inward and spiritual grace in Baptism is union with Christ in his death and resurrection, birth into God's family the Church, forgiveness of sins, and new life in the Holy Spirit.

These last four are taken in unison...

Q. What is the significance of Jesus' resurrection?
A. By his resurrection, Jesus overcame death and opened for us the way of eternal life.

Q. What do we mean when we say that he descended to the dead?
A. We mean that he went to the departed and offered them also the benefits of redemption.

Q. What do we mean when we say that he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father?
A. We mean that Jesus took our human nature into heaven where he now reigns with the Father and intercedes for us.

Q. How can we share in his victory over sin, suffering, and death?
A. We share in his victory when we are baptized into the New Covenant and become living members of Christ.

The catechism is found at this link

http://anglicansonline.org/basics/catec ... 20Covenant

Orvals


Orvals, no need to worry about starting conflict. You found a catechism that even confuses me (an Anglican) so I can only imagine how it looks to you.

The first thing you have to know about baptism (or any of the sacraments for that matter) is that it is an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace. The actual physical act/ritual of baptism has no effect whatsoever other than an outward expression of what has already happened. We believe that infants are adopted into the kingdom of God through baptism into His Church. However, when that child grows to an age of understanding, it is his/her responsibility to accept their adoption. After this inward and spiritual grace has been accepted through faith (or as you would say it, "once they get saved"), the person expresses their salvation through the sacrament of Confirmation. If baptism took care of the whole thing, there would be no need for confirmation. Baptism confers the rights and privileges of the Church on the person being baptized. Just like you don't exclude children from the rights and privileges of your family, we don't exclude them from the rights and privileges of the Church (although they cannot take communion until after their faith has been confirmed). Another reason we baptize infants is we believe that baptism took the place of circumcision, and circumcision was performed on the eighth day after birth. We could argue over infant baptism v. believer's baptism all day. I believe there is biblical support for both views and thus, reasonable people will disagree. But make no mistake about it, I don't believe you will find a single Anglican (at least not from the branch which I am familiar with) that believes you are guaranteed salvation by your baptism. It's by grace through faith.

From the same catechism you quoted:

Q: What is required of those to be confirmed:
A: It is required of those to be confirmed that they have been baptized, are sufficiently instructed in the Christian Faith, are penitent for their sins, and are ready to affirm their confession of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

If you are interested in Episcopalian Doctrine, I suggest you look at the Thirty-Nine Articles of Faith.
Here's a link: http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirt ... icles.html
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That is basically my experience with Free P's, too, except that they also baptize babies and believe in a mid-trib rapture. Was that true of your church?


Dr. Ian Paisley, I've heard speak from an American pulpit twice, is a Free Presbyterian in Northern Ireland. He preached the same salvation we do at Tabernacle Baptist Church in Va.Bch Va,. Tabernacle is a IFPMBC. Nice to know we aren't the only funny-mental people in the world :Green (Dr. Paisley's humor).
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Dr. Ian Paisley, I've heard speak from an American pulpit twice, is a Free Presbyterian in Northern Ireland. He preached the same salvation we do at Tabernacle Baptist Church in Va.Bch Va,. Tabernacle is a IFPMBC. Nice to know we aren't the only funny-mental people in the world :Green (Dr. Paisley's humor).


Yes, he is a strong preacher! He is one who does believe in infant baptism (told friends of ours who are missionaries over there that baptism is over-rated!!!) and mid-trib. He was good friends with the pastoral staff at one of the colleges I went to many years ago. We have a couple of his books. He isn't too well liked in some corners over there, but everyone knows what to expect from him! :thumb
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Yes, he is a strong preacher! He is one who does believe in infant baptism (told friends of ours who are missionaries over there that baptism is over-rated!!!) and mid-trib. He was good friends with the pastoral staff at one of the colleges I went to many years ago. We have a couple of his books. He isn't too well liked in some corners over there, but everyone knows what to expect from him! :thumb


The part bolded and particularly underlined above, I never heard that from Ian Paisley? Could you copy/paste the info from your source?
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II was asked these questions twice yesterday and thought I would get some help on answering them more fully.





Thank you
orvals


Methodists believe you can lose your salvation if they even believe in it to begin with.

The Nazarene is an off shoot of Methodists.

Landmarkers are Baptist Briders but I don't believe they are Calvinists although some within the ABA do hold the view.

Outside of your most of your Baptists , Presbyterians , some non-denominational and Grace Reformed Churches most pastors teach that you can lose your salvation.
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I grew up Arminian/Wesleyan/Nazarene.

You asked which churches teach Arminian doctrine. Here are summaries of both Arminianism and Calvinism. See which one most IFB's agree with more. (You asked which churches teach doctrines of Arminianism.)


Arminianism

Jacob Arminius (1560-1609) and his followers rejected the prevalent Reformation conviction that God had ultimate sovereignty over who would submit to Him in faith and repentance. In 1610, they formulated five ?articles of remonstrance? to articulate their positions. In sum, they argued that election is conditioned upon an individual?s faith in Christ, that Christ died ?for all men and every man,? that man cannot save himself without the grace of God but that he can resist God?s grace, and that the preservation of believers is dependent upon his remaining in Christ.[1] The Arminian argues that the ability to place one?s faith in Christ is given by God to every individual through prevenient grace. In other words, Arminians affirm that people are conceived totally corrupt, but they argue that God gives special grace to every individual, enabling every individual to respond freely to the call of the gospel.[2]

Historically, John and Charles Wesley and their followers, the Methodists, were among the most prominent promoters of Arminian theology. Even today you will find that Wesleyans and Methodists are theological Arminians. Today you will also find some Baptists, Lutherans, and others who hold to soteriological positions reflecting the teachings of Arminius.

Although pure Arminianism logically teaches that just as man can freely choose Christ, he can also freely choose to reject Christ later in life, thus losing his salvation, many who emphasize the other points of Arminianism today nonetheless defend eternal security. Still, such people who emphasize the unaided freedom of man in salvation, even though they defend eternal security, can be rightly described as Arminian in their view of salvation.

More extreme forms of this thought include Pelagianism and Open-Theism, both of which are extreme conclusions of Arminian thought, but are nonetheless outside the boundaries of biblical orthodoxy. Pelagianism teaches that people are conceived, not totally corrupt, but only partially corrupt, and that every individual has innate ability to choose God apart from any work of grace. In other words, according to Pelagianism, individuals are sinners because they sin, while orthodox Christians (both Arminians and Calvinists) believe that individuals sin because they are born sinners. Open-Theism takes logical steps from Arminian thought and argues that the only way to preserve true freedom for mankind is to insist that God does not know the future with certainty. This belief, too, runs outside the boundaries of biblical orthodoxy. Orthodox Christians (both Arminians and Calvinists) have always affirmed the exhaustive foreknowledge of God.

Calvinism

In response to the five-point claims of Arminians, followers of the Reformer John Calvin (1509-1564) formulated five points of their own. At the Council of Dort (1618) they articulated what are known today as the ?Five Points of Calvinism.? Instead of emphasizing the unaided free will of man in salvation, Calvinists claim that the will of man is in complete bondage to sin, and only an effectual work of God?s grace will free a man from that depravity and enable him to respond freely in faith and repentance. Once such a work of grace is performed upon the human heart, that individual will inevitably and immediately turn to Christ, and God chooses to do this miraculous work in the heart of individuals whom He elects based on the good pleasure of His will alone. This act naturally leads, then, to the conclusion that those whom God chooses, once they have come to faith in Christ, will persevere to the end.[3] Historically Presbyterians, Particular Baptists, and others hold to Calvinistic positions regarding salvation.

Pure Calvinists hold to all five of the so-called ?Five Points of Calvinism,? but some Calvinists choose to reject the third point, ?Particular Redemption? (sometimes called ?Limited Atonement?). These Calvinists are more correctly called Amyraldians, but such a ?Four-Point Calvinist? still falls within the greater category of Calvinistic understanding of salvation.

An extreme form of Calvinism, commonly known as Hyper-Calvinism, teaches that since God is entirely sovereign over the salvation of men, Christians have no responsibility to pray or evangelize. Further, some Hyper-Calvinists insist that one can never really be sure he is one of the elect until he dies. These views characterize a very small minority of Calvinists.[4] Traditionally, Calvinists have always been fervent evangelists and prayers. Some of the greatest evangelists of the past have been Calvinists, including Charles Spurgeon, William Carey, George Whitefield, and Jonathan Edwards.


Churches which lean more toward Arminianism (IMO) are all of the "Wesleyan" churches, including Methodist and Nazarene, all of (ironically) Lutheran churches (Luther himself was a Calvinist), and Baptists (and others, I'm sure...maybe Brethren churches and any other churches that follow the Wesleyan tradition--IOW, most evangelical and fundamentalist churches). While not all of these churches believe that one can lose his salvation, they are Arminian in that they teach what Arminius taught.

Calvinistic churches are Presbyterian, Reformed Baptist...any others? I can't think right now, for some reason.
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Missionary Baptists are not necessarily Calvinists, though there are some that call themselves such that are Calvinist. To prove my point, I will take a website of a Missionary Baptist church and quote them. This is not one I know or belong to by the way, just did a google and clicked the first one:

http://pluto.matrix49.com/15361/?subpag ... aith.shtml

VIII-THE GRACE OF REGENERATION

We believe that in order to be saved, sinners must be regenerated or born again (John 3:3, 6-7; I Cor. 2:14; II Cor. 5:17; Tit. 3:5); that regeneration consists in giving a holy disposition to the mind (Deut. 30:6; Jer. 24:7; Ezek. 36:26; Gal 5:6; I John 4:7); that it is effected in a manner above our comprehension by the power of the Holy Spirit, in connection with divine truth (Ps. 119:50; Prov. 1:23; John 17:20; I Cor. 4:15; James 1:16; I Peter 1:23-25), so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the gospel (Ps. 110:3; John6:44-45, 65; II Cor. 10:5; Eph 1:17-20; I Peter 1:22-25); and that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance (Acts 5:31; II Tim. 2:24-25), faith (John 6:29; Acts 18:27; Phil. 1:29; Col. 2:12; I Peter 1:21) and newness of life (Rom 6:4; I Cor. 6:9-11; I Peter 4:1-4).

(Highlights are mine)

Some people I know involved with the ABA have told me that it is approximately 70% of those who are part of the ABA that are calvinist. So certainly not sweeping rule.

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The part bolded and particularly underlined above, I never heard that from Ian Paisley? Could you copy/paste the info from your source?


Sorry, 1Tim, I just saw this. Well, the "source" I mentioned were, as I said, friends of ours - and they told us what he said to them. However, I do know that Free Presbyterian doctrine on baptism includes infant baptism. They teach believer's baptism and infant baptism.
Free Presbyterian church of Ulste, founded in 1951, ostensibly in protest against ecumenism and alleged apostasy in Irish Presbyterianism. Ian Paisley, pastor of the Ravenhill Evangelical Mission church in Belfast, a breakaway from Ravenhill Presbyterian congregation, was invited to conduct an evangelistic mission in the vacant Presbyterian congregation, was invited to conduct an evangelistic mission in the vacant Presbyterian congregation of Lissara in Crossgar. The Down Presbytery refused to countenance Paisley as missioner and, in protest, five Lissara elders published a Free Presbyterian Manifesto and formed a new congregation, ?free? from Irish Presbyterian oversight. The Ravenhill Evangelical Mission church became a second Free Presbyterian congregation and there are now more than 50 congregations with a membership in Northern Ireland of 12,362 (1991 census). The Free Presbyterians also claim to have churches in England, Germany, Spain, Australia, the United States, and the Republic of Ireland. They are unashamedly fundamentalist in doctrine and practise both believers' and infant baptism. Ian Paisley, whose own denominational background is Baptist, remains permanent moderator. His Ravenhill Evangelical Mission church has been replaced by the commodious Martyrs' memorial church in honour of the Protestant martyrs, illustrating the anti?Catholicism of the Free Presbyterians. Since 1979 the Whitefield College of the Bible, situated near Gilford in Co. Down, has trained Free Presbyterian ministers. The church remains closely linked to the Democratic Unionist Party.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O245-F ... hflst.html

The Baptismal Font is used during baptisms, which is the rite of entry into church membership. Children are regarded as sharing the promise of salvation with adults in the church and have as much right to be baptised as adults. ('Infant Baptism' does not guarantee admission to Full Membership. Full Membership is only accepted on Profession of a personal Faith.)
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Presbyterian_Church_in_Ireland

Clarence Sexton had Ian Paisley and other Presbyterians in to preach at his church and school over the last year. I listened via the internet as he introduced Paisley and made light of the fact that he is a Presbyterian and we are Baptists. There was no warning of the fact that the Free Presbyterian church views baptism as a ?controverted issue? that is a matter of ?personal liberty.? There was no refutation of their Calvinism. As a matter of fact, the Reformers' portraits line the halls of Temple Baptist Church.
To understand the background of this quote, here's the article...interesting read! http://www.wayoflife.org/files/8b8339fc ... 4-274.html (BTW - this quote is not from David Cloud...he is quoting from someone else.
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That is basically my experience with Free P's, too, except that they also baptize babies and believe in a mid-trib rapture. Was that true of your church?



the pastor of the Free Pres church that I attended disagreed with the infant baptism part, and believed in pre-trib rapture. Lots of baptist churches believe mid-trib...

I don't think they believe that baptism saves the child, it's just a show that the parents are saved and will raise the child in Christian home. It's still extra-biblical though - not needed...and more tradition than anything I think, still not right, I know. If I were them I wouldn't want to do anything that appeared catholic...which infant baptism does...
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the pastor of the Free Pres church that I attended disagreed with the infant baptism part, and believed in pre-trib rapture. Lots of baptist churches believe mid-trib... Oh, I know that - it was just that mid-trib is a point that many Free P's make (especially in other countries)

I don't think they believe that baptism saves the child, it's just a show that the parents are saved and will raise the child in Christian home. It's still extra-biblical though - not needed...and more tradition than anything I think, still not right, I know. If I were them I wouldn't want to do anything that appeared catholic...which infant baptism does... I do think that many see it as similar to baby dedication (or, as someone once pointed out to me, as similar to circumcision), but how many of those kids ends up being baptized later after they are saved? I agree - I'd not want to appear to be following Catholic doctrine in baptism, either!!
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Episcopal is Anglican and one of the basic tenants of Anglicanism is that salvation comes by grace through faith. Baptism has nothing to do with salvation.


My Anglican friend told me recently that her church Anglican says that salvation is by good works and believing. They do baby baptism and confirmation like the Catholics. I have heard that there are some Anglicans that do believe in Salvation through grace but I think they are an offshot of the Anglican Church. Very confusing but typical of the times. Few say what they mean or mean what they say. Or in this case Name their means or mean their names.

Blossom

P.S. Sorry Orvals I know this isn't much help. Even those who claim to be Independent Baptist no longer hold the distinctives of Independent Baptist.
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My Anglican friend told me recently that her church Anglican says that salvation is by good works and believing. They do baby baptism and confirmation like the Catholics. I have heard that there are some Anglicans that do believe in Salvation through grace but I think they are an offshot of the Anglican Church. Very confusing but typical of the times. Few say what they mean or mean what they say. Or in this case Name their means or mean their names.

Blossom

P.S. Sorry Orvals I know this isn't much help. Even those who claim to be Independent Baptist no longer hold the distinctives of Independent Baptist.


Blossom, I just wanted to let you know a term that was given to me. I work with an Episcopalian lady whose church seems to be more Catholic than not - in other words, they support the pope, believe in works salvation (at the same time referencing Christ dying on the cross), etc. When I mentioned this out to a friend who is Anglican, he let me know that her church is more likely what is referred to as "Anglo-Catholic." I do know that this friend is saved. He knows what salvation is and Who provides it. Very likely the church your friend attends, while being labeled Anglican, falls under the category of "Anglo-Catholic."

Actually, the Episcopalian church in early America taught salvation. So, those churches that no longer do so are going back under the fold of the Catholic church -- whether they realize they are or not!!!
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Thanks for that HC . If it wasn't so serious it would be funny. My friends openly detests the Catholic Church because they excommunicated (I think is the term) her father because he married an Anglican women who refused to become catholic in order for their marriage to be recognised by the catholic church. I questioned her on her faith showing how it has come from Catholicism and showed her in the bible where we are saved by grace and not works. She said she knows she should read her bible more but the preists spend years studying it and know what they are talking about. That kind of stubborn blindness is frustating to me.

God bless
Blossom

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