Creation account - allows for an already existing Universe?

[Guest Guest]

Just looking for some guidance in the Creation account:

How would one explain the light of the first day of Creation when the Bible tells us that the sun and the moon and the stars appeared only on the fourth day of creation?

Another query - the stars are known to be many light years away, which also mean that when they appeared, their light had to reach the earth instantly, not after many years (perhaps even millions or billions of years).

I don't believe in the 'Gap Theory' and firmly believe that the 6 days of creation were 6 literal days. However, could the creation account allow for an already existing (but lifeless) Universe?

Gen 1:2 says that the earth was formless and void, and that darkness was over the surface of the deep.
Could this mean that the Earth was already present before the Six Day Creation, but that it was covered with water (deep) and in darkness i.e. 'void' of life and 'formless' as no land was present?
For Gen 1:1 and elsewhere - would 'heaven/heavens' be the firmament/sky and not "Heaven" and likewise would 'earth' be land and not "planet Earth"? (Gen 1:8 and Gen 1 :10).

Would appreciate your thoughts.

[Jerry]

The Bible makes it very clear that all that exists - in the heavens and the earth - that is all three heavens (so even outer space) - was created in those six days. God created the light before He created the light sources - to show that He Himself was the source of light, not the sun, moon or stars.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Why try to fit something in the Bible that isn't in there?

[qwerty guy]

Short version:

God created light. He didn't need a source, He just created light.

He then put things that create light in place (stars, ect)

Long version:

E=MC2... Energy is mass times the speed of light squared
Mass turned into energy blah blah

You can turn matter into energy (that travels at the speed of light) and the reverse

Light is made up of photons. A unit of energy traveling at a measurable wave length.

In this universe, so far, we have only found things that create photons. while on visible light, or other spectrum.... but we have never seen anything created or destroyed. Lets roll back too creation though

God wants light? God can create light where He wants. Photos traveling where he wants, as many as He wants.

If you accept the creation of matter, then seriously you can accept the creation of particle energy... humans alone have proven you can interchange them. God is so much better.

I'll get to the other question if you PM me. pardon, but if you really wanna know you will PM me, if not then why type more?

[Colin Stolzer]

The other thing about light is, is that it doesn't travel at a constant speed. I read an article a few years ago about how they (scientists) had slowed light down in the labratory to almost a stop and then had speed it up to almost twice it's normal speed. So if humans with our limited understanding of the universe can do that. I'm very confident that God can do anything he wants with light.

C

[zealyouthguy]

The other thing about light is, is that it doesn't travel at a constant speed. I read an article a few years ago about how they (scientists) had slowed light down in the labratory to almost a stop and then had speed it up to almost twice it's normal speed. So if humans with our limited understanding of the universe can do that. I'm very confident that God can do anything he wants with light.

C

I've heard the theory about slowing light down, but do you have a link on speeding it up? Right now, our physics are based on the speed of light being a constant.

FTL (faster than light) is a whole can of worms.

That said... Man wasn't created as a sperm/egg zygote, he was created with the appearance of age... why not everything else?

I mean, since when is God, God, except in relation to the speed of light? Isn't he God over all?

[Colin Stolzer]

I've heard the theory about slowing light down, but do you have a link on speeding it up? Right now, our physics are based on the speed of light being a constant.

FTL (faster than light) is a whole can of worms.

That said... Man wasn't created as a sperm/egg zygote, he was created with the appearance of age... why not everything else?

I mean, since when is God, God, except in relation to the speed of light? Isn't he God over all?

[Danny Carlton]

Speeding up light.. http://www.livescience.com/technology/0 ... light.html
Slowing down light... http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/ ... e.research

Blogged about it here, here and here.

[qwerty guy]

They have stopped light for about a second. I'll try to find a link

The speed of light wasn't considered a constant, until they started using atomic clocks. Atomic clocks keep time, in laymans terms, with the speed of light. This of course means that no matter how fast or slow light goes, measured with an atomic clock it would always seem the same.

Before the use of atomic clocks, the speed of light kept changing to slower speeds. This is seen as an error in mesurments by modern scientists, but the slow down over time measured by scientists of the past has a constant rate of decline.

If light has been slowing down, that means it used to be much faster. This could also answer some of the "how did light get here from stars so far away" question.

If it takes 7 years for light to reach us from the nearest star, it may have only taken seconds in the past.

[Guest Guest]

Some good replies here.
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my original post.

[Guest Guest]

Just looking for some guidance in the Creation account:

How would one explain the light of the first day of Creation when the Bible tells us that the sun and the moon and the stars appeared only on the fourth day of creation?

Another query - the stars are known to be many light years away, which also mean that when they appeared, their light had to reach the earth instantly, not after many years (perhaps even millions or billions of years).

Oh yes good point. Just because God created light, doesn't mean that there had to be a source for it. The Bible just says God created light. That doesn't require a source.

I don't believe in the 'Gap Theory' and firmly believe that the 6 days of creation were 6 literal days. However, could the creation account allow for an already existing (but lifeless) Universe?

No, the Bible makes it quite certain that on the Fifth Day, God created humans.

[Anon]

If it takes 7 years for light to reach us from the nearest star, it may have only taken seconds in the past.

Hmm no probably not b/c of a young earth. The slowdown rate would not be fast enough to have that dramatic a change in only 7000 or so years. I believe God created everything to where it was immediately useable. Which is one reason aging techniques are worthless to a Christian because we do not know how much "age" God put into His creation, dealing with half lives and light and etc.

As far as what God can do, he created plants BEFORE he created the sun, right? He can do anything he wants to!

[Jerry]

No' date=' the Bible makes it quite certain that on the Fifth Day, God created humans.[/quote']

I assume this was just an error in typing - but man was created on the 6th day.

[qwerty guy]

Hmm no probably not b/c of a young earth. The slowdown rate would not be fast enough to have that dramatic a change in only 7000 or so years.

That would be if the slow down rate is constant, not exponential.

umm, Don't know your background much kitagrl when it comes to math, but it would be easily explained with c=(c/x)t

Explained: t being Time, c being the speed of light, x being how much you reduce the speed of light. Lets say the speed of light reduces 10% every 24 hours. Well, the speed of light right now, to make it a round number, lets say 200,000mph. Well, tomorrow it'll be 180,000... next day 162,000... it'll never reach zero, but it'll slow down slower.

The speed of light 7000 years ago could of been billions of times faster then it is now. There is nothing to say it's rate of decline is constant in any way. It could of reduced by 99% after only an hour, and it's rate of decline could change. It could even speed up at times and we would never know. Currently, the speed of light is measured with atomic clocks, which measure time with the speed of light lol. So right now, we measure light with light and would never notice a change.

[Jerry]

Light was created 6000 years ago.

[qwerty guy]

Light was created 6000 years ago.

Got an exact date?