Salvation according to MacArthur

[Michal]

John MacArthur deceitfully claims that he believes in the Eternal Security of a believer; while simultaneously teaching that only those who continue living holy lives will go to heaven. Mr. MacArthur states...

?Eternal security is a great spiritual truth, but it should never be presented merely as a matter of being once saved, always saved?with no regard for what you believe or do. The writer of Hebrews 12:14 states frankly that only those who continue living holy lives will enter the Lord's presence."
SOURCE: Kingdom Living Here and Now (pg. 150).

[Guest Guest]

Unfortunately MacArthur isn't around to clarify, but that quote looks to me like he is saying that you can't just "pray a prayer" and "say the right words" and then go through life constantly in sin, without a bit of chastening, and be a Christian. A "every good tree bringeth forth good fruit and every corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit" sort of statement.

[kevinmiller]

Unfortunately MacArthur isn't around to clarify' date=' but that quote looks to me like he is saying that you can't just "pray a prayer" and "say the right words" and then go through life constantly in sin, without a bit of chastening, and be a Christian. A "every good tree bringeth forth good fruit and every corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit" sort of statement.[/quote']
I agree.

[heartstrings]

Here's another quote:

Any doctrine of eternal security that leaves out perseverance distorts the doctrine of salvation itself. Heaven without holiness ignores the whole purpose for which God chose and redeemed us. (pg. 182)

MacArthur was a Calvinist...a false teacher.

[282Mikado]

Uh oh heartstrings, you just attacked Calvinism again...I can hear the hounds bayin' already! Put on the whole armour brother. Good post :amen:

[LindaR]

John MacArthur deceitfully claims that he believes in the Eternal Security of a believer; while simultaneously teaching that only those who continue living holy lives will go to heaven. Mr. MacArthur states...

?Eternal security is a great spiritual truth, but it should never be presented merely as a matter of being once saved, always saved?with no regard for what you believe or do. The writer of Hebrews 12:14 states frankly that only those who continue living holy lives will enter the Lord's presence."
SOURCE: Kingdom Living Here and Now (pg. 150).

This almost sounds like the "Kingdom Exclusion" doctrine which states that only "overcomers" will enter the Millennial Kingdom of Christ (1000 year earthly reign of Christ from Jerusalem), all "non-overcomers" will be cast into "outer darkness" I probably would have to read the book to find out, but the statement "only those who continue living holy lives will enter the Lord's presence" sounds like this false doctrine of Kingdom Exclusion.

BTW, it's good to see you "282Mikado"!

[Jerry]

MacArthur does believe in Calvinism, and he does believe that a professing Christian must persevere to the end to be saved (rather than believing God will keep a true believer; therefore they will persevere - ie. their salvation causes them to persevere overall, rather than having to persevere to be saved).

[kevinmiller]

MacArthur does believe in Calvinism' date=' and he does believe that a professing Christian must persevere to the end to [i']be saved (rather than believing God will keep a true believer; therefore they will persevere - ie. their salvation causes them to persevere overall, rather than having to persevere to be saved).

I don't think the issue is that you MUST persevere to the end so much as he believes that you WILL persevere to the end, which is the proof and fruit of your salvation. I agree to a certain extent.

[LindaR]

MacArthur does believe in Calvinism' date=' and he does believe that a professing Christian must persevere to the end to [i']be saved (rather than believing God will keep a true believer; therefore they will persevere - ie. their salvation causes them to persevere overall, rather than having to persevere to be saved).

We are kept "by the power of God" (1 Peter 1:5), which brings to mind this verse about tribulation and how the power of God keeps the believer. Jesus said:

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


To me, this means that I am an overcomer BECAUSE I am already "in Christ".

[Bakershalfdozen]

I don't think the issue is that you MUST persevere to the end so much as he believes that you WILL persevere to the end, which is the proof and fruit of your salvation. I agree to a certain extent.

Right; from what I've heard, he believes that true believers will persevere as opposed to "1-2-3, pray after me, now go sin all you want" salvations.

[Jerry]

I don't think the issue is that you MUST persevere to the end so much as he believes that you WILL persevere to the end' date=' which is the proof and fruit of your salvation. I agree to a certain extent.[/quote']

I read several books of his on this theme about 11-12 years ago, and it is possible I don't have a clear memory of some of what I have read (at first they intrigued me, but then upon later reflection, I was left with the impression that he was seriously off on this issue). However, he is a declared Calvinist, and the fifth point of the Tulip IS the Perseverance of the Saints - which is NOT the same thing as God's preservation of the saints.

[282Mikado]

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you' date=' that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; [b']I have overcome the world.


To me, this means that I am an overcomer BECAUSE I am already "in Christ".

Agreed, to the extent that salvation is once and for always and our works have nothing to do with attaining salvation, just the rewards we may receive in heaven.

I can also see truth in what Kevin says as well if he is reading MacArthur correctly:

I don't think the issue is that you MUST persevere to the end so much as he believes that you WILL persevere to the end' date=' which is the proof and fruit of your salvation. I agree to a certain extent.[/quote']

It's like what James stated:
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Works won't bring salvation, but if we truly have faith, it should be evident through our works.

[Guest Guest]

Well in the quote he did say: "Eternal security is a great spiritual truth" which would make no sense at all if he didn't think it is possible to have eternal security. If he was saying salvation was dependent on "Holiness" then where would be the security? That is why I said I think he is speaking of "easy believism", "fake faith", or the seed that immediately sprang up in the parable of the sower yet quickly withered away...

[Guest Guest]

It looks like more of that Lordship Salvation stuff. Except it sounds more like he thinks you have to work to keep it, not just work to prove you are saved.

It's so annoying. Can't anyone see that we're supposed to work to please God, of our own free will? Our works after we're saved have NOTHING to do with our salvation...

[kevinmiller]

Actually, our works have EVERYTHING to do with our salvation because it is proof that we have been saved. Check out James 2. :thumb