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Disciples or Not?


John81

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Yes, but this is part of the question here. Can one truly be saved yet not be a follower of Christ?

Christ continually speaks of the need to follow Him, to be His disciple, to place Him above all else and everyone else including our selves. Can one be saved without doing this?

Can one accept Christ as Saviour but not as Lord or does Christ demand that we accept Him as both Saviour and Lord?

Unless a person follows Christ, accepting Him as the Lord of their lives, they can't abide in Christ, they can't bear fruit for Christ because we can do nothing on our own, we can't truly love Christ because if we love Him we will obey Him and we can't obey Him unless we accept Him as our Lord and follow Him.

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Christ continually speaks of the need to follow Him' date=' to be His disciple, to place Him above all else and everyone else including our selves. Can one be saved without doing this?[/quote']

Apparently so, or else there would not be so many passages exhorting Christians to deny self, to give themselves as living sacrifices, to give their hearts to the Lord, to abide in Christ and in His Word, etc.



These are all things the believer is to do - after they get saved, not to be saved.

What are the requirements or conditions of being considered a disciple Biblically? And do all believers do that automatically? No. Some are:

Matthew 8:21-22 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Here is a disciple who would not take the next required step.)

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (It looks like this command was to people who already were disciples.)

Mark 8:34-35 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. (Requirements for being a disciple, not for salvation.)

Luke 14:26-33 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Requirements for being a disciple.)

John 6:60-66 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. (Someone could be unsaved and still be a disciple - temporarily anyway. See verse below too.)
John 12:4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,

John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (Discipleship conditioned upon staying in the Word of God.)

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. (Another condition.)

John 15:4-8 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. (More conditions.)

John 19:38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. (Some can be disciples secretly - for a time.)

Acts 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. (A distinction is made between those who were just saved - ie. obedient to the faith - and the disciples in general.)

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (Interesting that it was only those who closely followed the Lord that were considered Christians.)
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The love of a disciple for his Lord should be far above his love for anyone and anything else - so that in comparison/contrast, his love for others would seem as hate.

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But in many of those cases it seems those disciples were not true disciples because when Christ plainly told them what they must do, they refused. Judas was a disciple but he was not a true disciple.

Is repentance a required aspect of salvation?

If yes, then when we turn from selfishly living our lives according to our own selves, who are we to be turning to as the new commander (boss, Lord) of our lives? Is it not Christ?

I don't believe Scripture says anything of the sort that we must be perfect followers of Christ to gain salvation but it does seem that Scripture indicates we must freely give up our rights to govern our own lives and accept Christ as the governor of our lives. This, most often, is a process somewhat akin to a basic training recruit learning military ways and to fully obey his commanders in all things. Even so, from the begining there should be that realization that when one repents and turns to Christ that means their hearts desire is to be towards Christ. For some, this accepting of Christ ruling their lives seems to be very instant, for most others it's a process in which some submit more fully and quicker while others are slower in this. Thus the need for the exhortations and constant reminders that we are to fully submit to Christ.

The parable of the sower gives examples of those who hear the Word and follow but only for a short time because for various reasons, they are unwilling to fully accept the costs of submitting to Christ and refuse to do so. Scripture seems to indicate that not all of these are saved.

Scripture mentions disciples who followed Christ because they loved the miracles and the power in which He spoke but when he began preaching the hard truth these disciples proved they were not true disciples and didn't follow Him anymore.

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