Members Danny Carlton Posted March 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 2, 2008 Right - and there is nowhere that states people were chosen to be saved or not saved' date=' to go to Heaven or to Hell.[/quote'] Then what purpose does the Lamb's Book of Life serve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 Ephesians 1:4 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ***hides*** :hide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 Obviously a record of all those who will ever trust Christ for salvation - but the Bible does not teach God chose man apart from their free will to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. Their name in the Book of Life is not the reason they get saved, it is the record of all those that will be saved. Those that receive Christ are then put in Him - and those that are in Him are chosen in Him to be holy and blameless - not chosen to be saved or to go to Heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 I've been doing more research on this rather than posting in this thread and it's amazing how many varieties or versions of "Calvinism" there are out there. Some, to me anyway, are obviously unbiblical in all or most of their views. Others have some biblical views but err in other areas and a few hold to views that appear completely biblical. The only conclusion I can come to is that all of these can't be "Calvinism" and for those who hold to biblical views, well, those views are biblical, not Calvinist or Arminian or any other title or label. Not all "Calvinists" even hold to TULIP, and even among those who do the definitions of each letter can vary from way off to perfectly biblical. The fact no one is able to give one clear definition as to what is Calvinism (and this is true of professing Calvinists as well as non-Calvinists), it's really impossible to say "I'm a Calvinist" without adding qualifiers or to say all Calvinists are wrong or nothing they say is biblical. That said, it rather befuddles the mind that so many call themselves Calvinist. It also staggers me that some aspects that have come to be so over-connected to Calvinism, such as the word "perseverance", are often avoided by the saved or if a saved person mentions that word they are immediately looked upon askance or they may even be outright attacked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 We do not perseverance to keep our self saved, that would mean working to stay saved. God takes care of that part, we don't have to worry about staying saved, we are free to freely from our hearts to serve the Lord thy God. So I never use the word perseverance when talking about staying saved. The only thing that bothers me about the word perseverance is when a person states we have to perseverance to stay saved which is the P part of the TULIP doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 We do not perseverance to keep our self saved, that would mean working to stay saved. God takes care of that part, we don't have to worry about staying saved, we are free to freely from our hearts to serve the Lord thy God. So I never use the word perseverance when talking about staying saved. The only thing that bothers me about the word perseverance is when a person states we have to perseverance to stay saved which is the P part of the TULIP doctrine. And many "Calvinists" say that if a person is truly saved they will persevere to the end. Not that this saves them, but because they are saved they will persevere. That is their definition of the P in TULIP. They contend that once saved, always saved and thus a saved person will persevere rather than turning away or living like the devil even though they claim to be saved. Like I've mentioned before, there are so many different versions of what Calvinism is and means that it means that I don't know why most people would want to use that term anymore. This goes even more-so for those whose version of "Calvinism" lines up with Scripture; why not just call yourself a biblical Christian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 Why not start a thread or threads where the Biblical view of each is shown - regardless of the label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 Why not start a thread or threads where the Biblical view of each is shown - regardless of the label. If someone has the time that might be a good idea but I don't have the time to look all of this up again right now. Some of the positions put forth as "Calvinism" in this thread are biblical. Others have posted some other versions of Calvinism in this thread as well that certainly are not biblical. So to an extent, there are at least a few examples already within this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 But most of what has been presented has been debated about - whether it is Biblical or not. It hasn't really been an effort to present what the Bible actually teaches on those issues, more like disagreeing about where Calvinists actually stood (ie. negative - that's not what I believe, rather than positive - let's disuss what the Bible says about this). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 Jerry, that was what I thought too. For that reason I chose not to post in this topic last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alimantado Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 Before you can go any further' date=' you need to exaplian why anything should be defined by "some who". Some who are called Fundamentalists say God hates all homosexuals and is punishing the soldiers in Iraq because America doesn't execute all homosexuals. Do you want to be defined by "some people who"?[/quote'] Just to clarify: I meant 'some who call themselves Calvinist,' which is a true statement as far as I know. John81 is making all the points I wanted to make, so I'll duck out of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 282Mikado Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 But most of what has been presented has been debated about - whether it is Biblical or not. It hasn't really been an effort to present what the Bible actually teaches on those issues' date=' more like disagreeing about where Calvinists actually stood (ie. [b']negative - that's not what I believe, rather than positive - let's disuss what the Bible says about this). I have the flu so yesterday I stayed home and listened to a lesson (see link below) from James Knox on our thoughts compared to God's thoughts. It really lines up with what you said that I have stressed above, Jerry, and so many other issues that have been debated at OB. I know I was really convicted by what Pastor Knox had to share. I think I can safely say all my problems have been brought about by how I thought of things, not what God thought. I agree, Jerry, let's discuss what the Bible says, not what we think.http://www.jamesknox.com/sermons/bibles ... sses.shtml 01/27/2008 - Lesson 01 - Higher Thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Disciple Maker Posted March 3, 2008 Members Share Posted March 3, 2008 Why not start a thread or threads where the Biblical view of each is shown - regardless of the label.Here it is. I really doubt there will be any real participation because this kind of posting requires some real work. Most people posting in these forums are looking for snack food (milk and cookies). When someone posts something of substance (meat), it is usually too long and never is even read by the milk and cookies crowd. However, I have found some individuals on the OB site posting things of real substance. I always enjoy reading what they have to say (even when they are long posts).http://www.onlinebaptist.com/messageboards/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21925 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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