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My definition of Calvinism


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Sir, that verse does not say WHO ordained does it? You know it doesn't. Now I want you to carefully read the following:

1Corinthians 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted(tasso) themselves to the ministry of the saints,)
WHO appointed these people? ? Nobody, they "tasso'd" themselves
They were determined, resolved, set, addicted "tasso" to the ministry of the saints.

The people who got saved wanted eternal life real bad..they were "tasso".
I don't know any Greek, But I know the God who gave us the King James Bible and He tells us that "whosoever will" may come.
He gave His only Son for the whole world, friend.
The word may be the same but the context isn't. There's a big difference between saying "those that were [appointed/set/chosen]" and "they [appointed/set/chose] themselves". What I don't understand is that even under the concept of God choosing those he foreknew would (of their own free will) choose Him, the passage (Acts 13:48) can easily be read as "appointed [by God]", so why all the semantical gymnastics?
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You might want to take a look at John Piper's statement from the web site of Bethlehem Baptist Church beginning on page 16.

"PERSERVERANCE OF THE SAINTS (notice PERSEVERANCE is spell incorrectly)
It follows from what was just said that the people of God WILL persevere to the end and
not be lost. The foreknown are predestined, the predestined are called, the called are
justified, and the justified are glorified. No one is lost from this group. To belong to this
people is to be eternally secure.
But we mean more than this by the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. We mean
that the saints will and must persevere in the obedience which comes from faith. Election
is unconditional, but glorification is not. There are many warnings in Scripture that those
who do not hold fast to Christ can be lost in the end. (bolding added)

The statement goes on in some depth.
http://c4.atomicplaypen.com/sites/BBC/resources/images/1250.pdf
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"PERSERVERANCE OF THE SAINTS (notice PERSEVERANCE is spell incorrectly)

Wouldn't that be "spelled incorrectly"?
It follows from what was just said that the people of God WILL persevere to the end and
not be lost. The foreknown are predestined, the predestined are called, the called are
justified, and the justified are glorified. No one is lost from this group. To belong to this
people is to be eternally secure.
But we mean more than this by the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. We mean
that the saints will and must persevere in the obedience which comes from faith. Election
is unconditional, but glorification is not. There are many warnings in Scripture that those
who do not hold fast to Christ can be lost in the end. (bolding added)

The statement goes on in some depth.
http://c4.atomicplaypen.com/sites/BBC/resources/images/1250.pdf

The problem with your analysis is the same proble, confusing cause and effect. Is obedience a cause or an effect of salvation? In either case, is it optional? Obviously it is not optional, but we are then left with the quandry of how to emphasize the importance of obedience without implying it is a causal factor.
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Wouldn't that be "spelled incorrectly"?

The problem with your analysis is the same proble, confusing cause and effect. Is obedience a cause or an effect of salvation? In either case, is it optional? Obviously it is not optional, but we are then left with the quandry of how to emphasize the importance of obedience without implying it is a causal factor.
It is not my analysis. It was simply a direct quote from their web site.

Obedience is nether a cause or effect of salvation. Obedience is a decision.
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The word may be the same but the context isn't. There's a big difference between saying "those that were [appointed/set/chosen]" and "they [appointed/set/chose] themselves". What I don't understand is that even under the concept of God choosing those he foreknew would (of their own free will) choose Him, the passage (Acts 13:48) can easily be read as "appointed [by God]", so why all the semantical gymnastics?


It don't say appointed "by God", brotherman.
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It is not my analysis. It was simply a direct quote from their web site.

Obedience is nether a cause or effect of salvation. Obedience is a decision.


No, I'm talking about your analysis that Piper was saying one must work to keep their salvation.

Obedience may be a choice, but it is an effect of salvation which is the cause.
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For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach' date=' because we trust in the living God, [b']who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

First Timothy 4:10
You need to elaborate. It sounds as if you are saing all will be saved, regardless what they do or believe.
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But we mean more than this by the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. We mean that the saints will and must persevere in the obedience which comes from faith. Election is unconditional, but glorification is not. There are many warnings in Scripture that those who do not hold fast to Christ can be lost in the end.


Funny how people will defend Calvinism and even Piper - yet that statement looks like false doctrine to me - the exact same doctrine I have refuted and called into question in another thread on what some Calvinists believe. There you have it: a Calvinist quite clearly teaching that Perseverance means someone must persevere to the end to be or stay saved.
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What does specially mean here?

And I'm not saying anything in that quote, that's God speaking.


Strong's...

mavlista malista, mal'-is-tah; neuter plural of the superlative of an apparently primary adverb mala (very); (adverbially) most (in the greatest degree) or particularly:--chiefly, most of all, (e-)specially.

But the word "Saviour" is...

swthvr soter, so-tare'; from 4982; a deliverer, i.e. God or Christ:--saviour.

...4982 is...

sw/vzw sozo, sode'-zo; from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saos, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):--heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

That would then go back to Luke 2:10 and 11...

And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Jesus offered salvation to all, but all did not accept. I would imagine that 1 Tim 4:10 would be seen like this... a postman is still a postman even if you refuse the mail he brings.
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Funny how people will defend Calvinism and even Piper - yet that statement looks like false doctrine to me - the exact same doctrine I have refuted and called into question in another thread on what some Calvinists believe. There you have it: a Calvinist quite clearly teaching that Perseverance means someone must persevere to the end to be or stay saved.

"...Looks like false doctrine..." there's the catch. You have to go beyond what it "looks" like and study what is true.

It is true that obedience and salvation are inextricably linked. But when we say we can't lose our salvation, it's tempting for some (remember, Paul addressed this in Romans) to then think they have no obligation to obedience--that being saved is enough. Piper is emphasizing the importance of obediecne in that equation, but not necesarily as a cause.
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It follows from what was just said that the people of God WILL persevere to the end and
not be lost. The foreknown are predestined, the predestined are called, the called are
justified, and the justified are glorified. No one is lost from this group. To belong to this
people is to be eternally secure.
But we mean more than this by the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. We mean
that the saints will and must persevere in the obedience which comes from faith. Election
is unconditional, but glorification is not. There are many warnings in Scripture that those
who do not hold fast to Christ can be lost in the end. (bolding added)


This is surely not the norm for Calvinism. Most Calvinist believe that if one is saved they will through the power of God persevere to the end.
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