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kimberlydm

Genuine Repentance?????

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I think we are all pretty close to being on the same page but I do have a issue with that statement in bold print. Scripture is quite clear that repentance must come before salvation.


"Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him."

In this verse Jesus condemns the Pharisees for unbelief, and then puts repentance as a requirement before one can truly believe.

I believe repentance and saving faith are so closely connected that it is difficult to separate the two. If a person truly believes on Christ they will have a repentant heart toward their known sins at the moment of salvation. Conversely, if someone has a truly repentant heart toward their sins(their sins as a whole, lots of lost people may genuinely repent of some specific sin that is OBviously harmful and even quit doing it) they also are usually ready to believe and be saved.

"Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."

This verse also puts repentance before faith.


I agree, repentance, then salvation.

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I think we are all pretty close to being on the same page but I do have a issue with that statement in bold print. Scripture is quite clear that repentance must come before salvation.


Yes, I agree, we must be. I agree with you that repentance comes before salvation, alongside faith. But I disagree that it is sins we are to repent of, as in, individual transgressions of God's law. I think you nailed it on the head below:

"Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness' date=' and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: [u']and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him."

In this verse Jesus condemns the Pharisees for unbelief, and then puts repentance as a requirement before one can truly believe.


This is exactly right; Jesus condemned them for their unbelief. THAT is what we must repent of. An unsaved person cannot "change his mind" about the acts of sins until Jesus through the Holy Spirit gives him a new heart. It is unbelief that sends a person to hell; therefore it is unbelief that we must repent of prior to salvation. Repentance of unbelief/rejection of Christ must come before salvation; of that I do not dispute.

I think we are saying much the same thing and just going in circles. It's just one of those things that is often misunderstood. Thank you for your help!

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An unsaved person cannot "change his mind" about the acts of sins until Jesus through the Holy Spirit gives him a new heart.



If that were true what good is the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Part of his jOB is to convict the lost world of sin, righteousness, and of judgment. If they were not capable of responding to that conviction it would be a waste of time. I know when I got saved the Holy Spirit did not convict my heart of "unbelief" per se, what he convicted me of was my sin. I saw that that conviction of the Holy Spirit was the truth, and that put my heart into a position where I wanted to get saved. If a lost person does not see their sin for what it is and repent in their heart of it then they have no reason to believe on Christ.

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But is it these sins that prevent someone from inheriting the kingdom of God, or is their rejection of Christ?


It because of their love of their sins that many will not turn to Christ/receive the Gospel - so they may be convinced intellectually that Jesus IS the only Saviour, but won't repent of those sins that hold them back from trusting in Him alone.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-14 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the OBtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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:amen:!! Thank you for expressing what I trying to but failing!:icon_pray::icon_pray::icon_pray:




But is it these sins that prevent someone from inheriting the kingdom of God, or is their rejection of Christ? I'm reminded of what John 3:18 says: "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Notice, it is not believing on Jesus Christ that condemns a person; not because they sin all these different types of sins. Not because they broke the 10 commandments. Yes, sin separates from God (Isaiah 59:1), but it is that one sin of rejecting Christ that will condemn a person to hell for all of eternity.

It still seems to me that Peter was urging them to repent of their rejection of Christ; not of individual sins. It is Christ that makes us new. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17). "And such were some of you..." Why? Because we repented of those sins? Or is it because we "are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Jesus Christ, and by the Spirit of our God" (1 Corinthians 6:11).

We cannot be justified or washed or sanctified until we have repented of our rejection of Christ and by faith receive Him as our Saviour. An unsaved person cannot repent of their sins until the Lord Jesus Christ makes them a new creature. The Lord gives us a new heart and a new mind when we are saved; and with that, He gives us new desires.



Boy, I sure do agree with this, though. True repentance will cause a change of conduct. So many professing "Christians" never really see a change of conduct. And that is a major issue! Sure, we no longer take pleasure in those sins, but because Christ has changed us. An unregenerate man cannot change his desires. Can a leopard change his spots? Of course not. And neither can an unsaved person change their desires about sin. The only thing they can change is their rejection of Christ. It doesn't matter the sins; a person's sins do not condemn them to hell. Only rejecting Christ does that!

Perhaps we are saying the same thing?

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I like what Adrian Rodgers said one time. Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. Yes repentance is a change of mind that results in a changed life style. When you trusted Christ you had a change of mind about your sins and you trusted Christ. Peter say in Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Repent is plural, Let all of you repent and each one of you be baptized because your sins have been forgiven.

God Bless
John

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If that were true what good is the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Part of his jOB is to convict the lost world of sin, righteousness, and of judgment. If they were not capable of responding to that conviction it would be a waste of time. I know when I got saved the Holy Spirit did not convict my heart of "unbelief" per se, what he convicted me of was my sin. I saw that that conviction of the Holy Spirit was the truth, and that put my heart into a position where I wanted to get saved. If a lost person does not see their sin for what it is and repent in their heart of it then they have no reason to believe on Christ.


Isn't part of repentance realizing that, yes, we DO have sin, but there is absolutely nothing we can do about it on our own? That we need Someone else to do the work for us?

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We must repent and believe the gospel. We turn away from the old man and look to Christ trusting the gospel with a genuine heart. Anyone that removes repentance is honestly removing a vital part of salvation. Many today are told to just believe, but that is only half the picture. You could tell someone to believe a Chevy is a better car, and they might accept that as true, but they must turn away from their old Ford and start driving a Chevy to truly show they believe the car is better. Same with Jesus Christ. You can say Jesus Christ is the author of salvation, and know the facts, but until you walk away from the devils plan and turn toward the Masters plan you are only half way there. I am not talking about any "Lordship" salvation, clearly we will sin and make mistakes. But, we are saved from our sins and we can't let them be our lord and master anymore.

You see, it's child-like faith we must have as babes in Christ. Taking simple honest steps in OBedience for our Lord and Master Jesus Christ. Baptism is one of the first steps to show the world is old news and Jesus is now King of our Life! Reading the Bible with a real desire to learn. Church attendance. Slowly removing the old man and setting up a new man that is like our Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance never ends. It's needed in the beginning of salvation and needed every day in the believers life.

I have stated in past threads I believe one can neglect their faith and lose salvation. Perhaps I need to study that more, but clearly if one genuinely repents of their sin and turns to Christ they are now His! No power here on earth can remove you from Christ hand. AMEN! (the ability to give back your faith is under personal study now, I could be wrong.)

So, the Church today must preach repentance and stop giving the impression one can still be like the world and be a Christian. Salvation is much more than a cure from hell or sin in general. It is a change of heart and mind about the things of this world.

I could go on. But my point is clear I trust.

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We must repent and believe the gospel. We turn away from the old man and look to Christ trusting the gospel with a genuine heart. Anyone that removes repentance is honestly removing a vital part of salvation. Many today are told to just believe, but that is only half the picture. You could tell someone to believe a Chevy is a better car, and they might accept that as true, but they must turn away from their old Ford and start driving a Chevy to truly show they believe the car is better. Same with Jesus Christ. You can say Jesus Christ is the author of salvation, and know the facts, but until you walk away from the devils plan and turn toward the Masters plan you are only half way there. I am not talking about any "Lordship" salvation, clearly we will sin and make mistakes. But, we are saved from our sins and we can't let them be our lord and master anymore.

You see, it's child-like faith we must have as babes in Christ. Taking simple honest steps in OBedience for our Lord and Master Jesus Christ. Baptism is one of the first steps to show the world is old news and Jesus is now King of our Life! Reading the Bible with a real desire to learn. Church attendance. Slowly removing the old man and setting up a new man that is like our Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance never ends. It's needed in the beginning of salvation and needed every day in the believers life.

I have stated in past threads I believe one can neglect their faith and lose salvation. Perhaps I need to study that more, but clearly if one genuinely repents of their sin and turns to Christ they are now His! No power here on earth can remove you from Christ hand. AMEN! (the ability to give back your faith is under personal study now, I could be wrong.)

So, the Church today must preach repentance and stop giving the impression one can still be like the world and be a Christian. Salvation is much more than a cure from hell or sin in general. It is a change of heart and mind about the things of this world.

I could go on. But my point is clear I trust.



Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

#1. This man had a fear of God and God;s judgement.
#2. He realized that he was guilty and deserved judgement.
#3 He realized that God was righteous, holy, pure and just and he acknowledged Jesus as Lord and King.

Even though he could see that Jesus was hanging there in shame, a bloody gorey mess, the thief still recognized Jesus as the Eternal Lord. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will reprove the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement and the Holy Spirit was clearly working here because the thief on the cross recognized all three of these things. As to repentence, the thief truly realized that he deserved what he was getting, and he turned to Jesus for mercy. He trusted Jesus as his only hope. Repentence is acknowledging what you are and who God is. It is to truly acknowledge that God is right and you are wrong. A person does not repent by simply "quitting" their sin; there has to be a fear of God and a turning to Jesus in faith, for mercy. It all has to be done in your heart.; there is no "works" involved. Do you want to have your sin and self...or have Jesus?

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Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

#1. This man had a fear of God and God;s judgement.
#2. He realized that he was guilty and deserved judgement.
#3 He realized that God was righteous, holy, pure and just and he acknowledged Jesus as Lord and King.

Even though he could see that Jesus was hanging there in shame, a bloody gorey mess, the thief still recognized Jesus as the Eternal Lord. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will reprove the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement and the Holy Spirit was clearly working here because the thief on the cross recognized all three of these things. As to repentence, the thief truly realized that he deserved what he was getting, and he turned to Jesus for mercy. He trusted Jesus as his only hope. Repentence is acknowledging what you are and who God is. It is to truly acknowledge that God is right and you are wrong. A person does not repent by simply "quitting" their sin; there has to be a fear of God and a turning to Jesus in faith, for mercy. It all has to be done in your heart.; there is no "works" involved. Do you want to have your sin and self...or have Jesus?


Forgive me if my post seemed to promote a works salvation. But, if one does acknowledge what they are and who God is wouldn't it OBviously result in an external change? Faith without works is dead!

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Forgive me if my post seemed to promote a works salvation. But, if one does acknowledge what they are and who God is wouldn't it OBviously result in an external change? Faith without works is dead!


Even a lost person can do good works. But with true salvation there will be an internal change; the external changes will be manifest because of that.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

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Even a lost person can do good works. But with true salvation there will be an internal change; the external changes will be manifest because of that.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Then why do so many preach repentance and believing MUST result in good works? Oliver B Greene many times says that only a truly repented person will give up alcohol, if they don't give it up then they are not saved. Many other preachers say that Biblical believing must result in a change! What am I missing? I know Jesus died for my sins, I don't look to anything but the blood of Christ for salvation, Salvation is a gift from God (grace!), I want to be a new creature, I struggle with the flesh .... I know in my heart I am saved .... but how can I miss this basic understanding of repentance? If repentance is a simple understanding who God is and what we are then why are so many preachers yelling REPENT REPENT REPENT and cast your sins before the cross! Turn from your wicked ways! WHAT AM I MISSING!?!?!?!

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Repentence is something a child of God will need to do many times throughout their Christian life.
The Bible teaches that a saved person has two natures; the "old man" or "sin nature" and the "new man". The "new man" cannot sin, but the old nature "self" or "the flesh" can and will sin. We are supposed to deny ourselves, put on the new man, and walk after the Spirit. God isn't going to MAKE you do so, but He can make you wish you had.. If you are a child of God, or "son of God", then God will chasten you for doing wrong.. But the Bible says that if a person is without chastisement, he is a "bastard" and not a son. In other words, if you can sin and continue practicing sin, and just go on without it ever bothering you and without God ever chastising you, you aren't saved.

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Good works are a great indication of the salvation that has occurred. The Roman Catholic church does many good works, but they don't believe in the Christ of the Bible. But someone who does trust in Christ will do good works out of love for Christ, not necessity to maintain salvation.

When I got saved, I destroyed my library of Playboy magazines, poured the liquor down the drain, but kept my chewing tOBacco. I actually chewed tOBacco while digging the foundation of our church's new wing. It took me about three years to realize that chewing tOBacco wasn't a God-honoring practice. For some people, "external proof" of salvation takes a little longer to display than for others.

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:thumb:



Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

#1. This man had a fear of God and God;s judgement.
#2. He realized that he was guilty and deserved judgement.
#3 He realized that God was righteous, holy, pure and just and he acknowledged Jesus as Lord and King.

Even though he could see that Jesus was hanging there in shame, a bloody gorey mess, the thief still recognized Jesus as the Eternal Lord. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit will reprove the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement and the Holy Spirit was clearly working here because the thief on the cross recognized all three of these things. As to repentence, the thief truly realized that he deserved what he was getting, and he turned to Jesus for mercy. He trusted Jesus as his only hope. Repentence is acknowledging what you are and who God is. It is to truly acknowledge that God is right and you are wrong. A person does not repent by simply "quitting" their sin; there has to be a fear of God and a turning to Jesus in faith, for mercy. It all has to be done in your heart.; there is no "works" involved. Do you want to have your sin and self...or have Jesus?


:amen::goodpost::thumb:

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Ephesians 2:8-10 (King James Version)

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

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Sometimes I feel that I need to go back to the basics and relearn everything .....


That can be a good idea. Scripture tells us to examine our faith, to make sure we KNOW. God has given us His Word so we can look for answers from the basic to the advanced.

Also, there are many here who would be willing to help answer your questions.

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That can be a good idea. Scripture tells us to examine our faith, to make sure we KNOW. God has given us His Word so we can look for answers from the basic to the advanced.

Also, there are many here who would be willing to help answer your questions.


Many have already helped me here. I am impressed with the complete calmness on this site and nOBody is interested in insults! AMEN!

My prOBlem is too many different doctrines floating in my mind. I can't find rest in the truth when I see it. I always seem to second guess it.

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Many have already helped me here. I am impressed with the complete calmness on this site and nOBody is interested in insults! AMEN!

My prOBlem is too many different doctrines floating in my mind. I can't find rest in the truth when I see it. I always seem to second guess it.


Check it with folks here and check what you are told with Scripture.

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Sometimes I feel that I need to go back to the basics and relearn everything .....



This is a good idea. Even for the ones that are firm in their faith. Now the question is, where to start? What Biblical study program should one restart in? What part of the Bible should one start to read?

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This is a good idea. Even for the ones that are firm in their faith. Now the question is, where to start? What Biblical study program should one restart in? What part of the Bible should one start to read?


One can't go wrong with reading and Studying the New Testament. The basics and our foundation are right there as well as the meat needed for further growth.

One good strategy is to read Matthew and then go to Acts and read on through. Then read Mark and back to Acts on through...then Luke...then John...

This gives attention to each of the four gospels plus provides four readings of the rest of the New Testament. One should be very grounded in the faith and Word after such if they take their time prayerfully following the teaching of the Holy Ghost through each reading.

Another benefit after such a study is how much will be commited to memory and how quickly one will be able to refer to specific topics of Scripture in the New Testament without even specifically having worked on such.

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