Something that's always confused me:

[Guest Guest]

What's your definition of glorifying Christ? Just lyrics? If so, are you saying it is okay to have thrash metal and hip hop or rap as long as they talk about Jesus?

Jerry, from what I've seen on this board, the only opinion that will matter in this area is yours. I promise you that the music that is used to worship God in other parts of the world doesn't sound like or have the style of our sacred music in America.

John81 said it best: "In any event, I've only encountered these sorts once and that was several years ago, but they have themselves way up high on a mighty spiritual horse and they are quick to attack anyone who questions them!" I don't have a problem with your beliefs or anyone else's, but if my opinion is stated and backed up with just as much proof as has been given on the flip-side, I will probably get harped on until I concede the point. In this case, however, I will not concede - you cannot justly impose an extra-Biblical standard on others, at least not Scripturally. There are so many other issues at stake in the NT church.

I think God would be more happy if people just legitimately praised Him, and quit worrying about how others did it. With this post, I end my input in this thread. I have clearly (many times over) made my point. Anybody with a third-grade level of reading-comprehension could catch it. I will not delve into the fray of trying to personally interpret what is right for people. Sadly, I think most people would rather God just give us a nice, thick daily life manual that has "rules" in list format, rather than our having to cultivate a relationship with Him to know His heart.

I am through in this thread, as the arguments have now made their cyclical journey. You may all now have the last word. :lol

[HappyChristian]

Here's the last word. :lol No, really, I have to put in here that music is subjective. And that means that each person has to decide what God would have them listen to.

Vir is correct in that music in other parts of the world are not the same as here. Does that mean that it doesn't glorify God? No - it just means that it's different than what mainstream Christians listen to and sing here. Jewish music is much different from ours, but I think it is just beautiful!

Jerry is also correct, Vir, in his question as to what glorifies God. Can we glorify God if we are singing hymns rap style or with hip-hop music and movement?

Vir is correct again when he says that it is an outgrowth of our relationship with Christ. The closer one gets to Christ, the more Christ-honoring his/her music will be.

Now - there are scriptural principles to apply to music selection. These principles apply to all of life, not just music.

These verses: What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

I realize the context here is avoiding fornication, but I do believe the principle is to be applied in every area. We are to bring glory to God in two ways - physical and spiritual. If our music glorifies the ways of the world in any way, will it bring glory to God?

These verses: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

We are not to be like the world. In any of our actions - or even our thoughts. In music, if we combine styles like heavy metal, etc., with godly lyrics, are we not trying to have concord with Christ and Belial?

Again - music is subjective. If someone is seeking after God with all his/her heart, I believe the Holy Spirit will show them truth in all matters, music included. But - if someone continues to feed their spirit on music that is too much like the world's music, they will continue to believe that it is okay, because that is what they are "eating."

I don't think all CCM is wrong. There are some that are quite good. Some of the artists have one good song and many that I think are yuck. But that is my personal opinion. I don't listen to it, really, because I don't want to feed on it.

My son has a friend who listens to CCM and even "Christian" rock. It surprised all of us, because we have known the family for many years. They put some of the songs on my son's ipod. I listened to them and told him I didn't like much of the CCM that they put on there. He said he didn't either, that there was only one song he wanted, but the fellow put on the entire album. He is going to remove them (of his own accord, not our command). Anyway, our son told the fellow that we (and he included himself) didn't like a lot of those and so he was going to take them off. The fellow said, "I know what you mean. At first my mom didn't either, but now she loves it." She has been feeding on it, and now she likes what at first her spirit told her was wrong. That is the danger of a good lot (please note I didn't say all - remember hymns that we love now were at one time contemporary) of the CCM music.

[Jerry]

The issue is not old versus new (ie. contemporary). CCM are specific styles of music, including all forms of rock and country. I have several CDs of artists that are alive - that do not have a rock backbeat, that are not sensual, that are not vague in their lyrics. They feed my spirit, not my flesh.

[HappyChristian]

The issue is not old versus new (ie. contemporary). CCM are specific styles of music' date=' including all forms of rock and country. I have several CDs of artists that are alive - that do not have a rock backbeat, that are not sensual, that are not vague in their lyrics. They feed my spirit, not my flesh.[/quote']

I know the issue isn't old vs. new, but I included that because it has been mentioned.

Your last statement is indicative of what I am talking about - feeding our spirit instead of our flesh. In all areas of our lives, if we aren't careful, we can feed our flesh and then we are no longer able to discern what is right and what isn't. Music is one of the hardest areas because it is subjective. And that is why I choose not to listen to certain styles of music.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was addicted to rock music and I know the power that has over a person. I will not listen to something that sounds like that and claims to be Christian because I know what the music (not the lyrics!!) did to me!

[Jerry]

I agree. In light of what you said, I do find it interesting to note that on various message boards, some of the ones who fight the hardest for CCM (ie. contemporary Christian rock and country, including their soft rock "worship" music) are often those who play violent video games and watch any kind of movies, also they often are for social drinking. They show a serious lack of discernment in what they allow into their lives - and it is no wonder we can never see eye to eye with them on music. They won't even consider whether certain styles of music are wrong in themselves - because they love those styles, and we are personally stepping on their toes when we speak against so-called "Christian" rock or country. They make it seem as if the issue is all about what does God accept, but really it comes down to what they have already embraced and won't consider changing.

About 10 years ago, I started doing research on CCM groups. There were some obvious problems with some - but many I had no idea of the compromises in their lives, how vague or unscriptural their lyrics were. When I literally found that every CCM group I ever listened to or heard had some problems in their ministry, their moral lives, their doctrine and associations, their manner of dress (including hair and attire), then I had to take a step back and look at the genre of rock itself. There was too much coincidence if all these groups had problems - yet what they had in common was the rock or country music. Haven't listened to CCM since.

[bzmomo7]

Yes, this is really the heart of the matter.........and it doesn't mean a person is "haughty" because of what they chose to listen (or not listen) to or because they have an opinion on the issue. Vir, I never said I (or anyone) was better than anyone else because of their musical preferences.....if that is how you took it, I'm sorry, that is not what I meant.