why exactly?

[Jerry]

Trutroop, someone pointed something out in an email to me this morning. You are seeking to leave the Catholic church and to search Scripturally for answers - and that makes the Devil angry. He has stirred up various tools of his (other Catholic posters) to discourage you and confuse you. We have had about four new Catholic posters within the last couple of days - all have been warned and I banned one already (close to banning the others too).

Stick with the Bible alone. They try to teach you that they believe the Bible - then they should have NO problem if you critique all their beliefs and practices by the Bible! Of course, they show their deception by trying to sidetrack the issue once they are proven wrong - then they start talking about church authority and traditions over the Bible. Well, apart from the Bible, their church has NO authority by God - so if they throw out the Bible or contradict it, they are no authority in your life at all. Stick with the Book! And claim God's promise of wisdom:

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Ask the Lord for wisdom everytime you open up His Word. Ask Him to teach you what He would have you learn today, what He wants you to apply today. God bless.

[John81]

Jerry can probably locate them quicker than I, but there are a some quotes of Catholic priests around the time of the Reformation who talked about the fact that if the RCC hadn't been persecuting Baptists for over a century the Protestant revolt would have been much worse.

It's clear the RCC has done all they can to hide the fact true Christians have existed since the time of Christ and they were not Catholics because the Catholics continually tried to destroy them.

[Guest Guest]

Trutroop, someone pointed something out in an email to me this morning. You are seeking to leave the Catholic church and to search Scripturally for answers - and that makes the Devil angry. He has stirred up various tools of his (other Catholic posters) to discourage you and confuse you. We have had about four new Catholic posters within the last couple of days - all have been warned and I banned one already (close to banning the others too).

Stick with the Bible alone. They try to teach you that they believe the Bible - then they should have NO problem if you critique all their beliefs and practices by the Bible! Of course, they show their deception by trying to sidetrack the issue once they are proven wrong - then they start talking about church authority and traditions over the Bible. Well, apart from the Bible, their church has NO authority by God - so if they throw out the Bible or contradict it, they are no authority in your life at all. Stick with the Book! And claim God's promise of wisdom:

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Ask the Lord for wisdom everytime you open up His Word. Ask Him to teach you what He would have you learn today, what He wants you to apply today. God bless.

Great advice in that last sentence, Jerry; however, the tools of the devil comment was entirely untrue & uncharitable.

I indicated that Trutroop should continue hearing the Word of God -- daily if he/she could make the time. How is this discouraging? Also, if you read my posts I quoted scripture from the KJV throughout, especially where I laid out the marks of the NT church as one, universal & apostolic. This church -- which also produced and canonized the New Testament by the power of the Holy Spirit -- is the same church that is revealed throughout its pages. Is it possible to read another church into the NT? Yes, but only if one chooses to place oneself in judgement of all the interpreters of the early church -- the men who received apostolic succession, and were in a position to know better. Unfortunately, some couldn't could care less about the beliefs of the Apostles, their immediate successors, or the martyred saints who've come before us, so ignoring or picking & choosing verses is the only way I can see how they can come up with a different looking church. IMO, this should require a tremendous amount of fear for those who say they love Jesus Christ. Remember, Jesus said to His first Apostles, "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me." (Lk 10:16)

Lastly, since I am no longer a member of a Baptist church I may not be welcome on this board. However, I've been born again -- as a Baptist -- in the way you understand it. I've had my altar call and believer's baptism in front of a congregation who was filled with the sweet-sweet spirit. I taught Sunday school classes & children's church on the Lord's Day and I participated in Wednesday night bible studies week after week. I grew up with and still regularly read my KJV bible and love to share it with all who are willing to hear. You may not believe it, but I know what it means to be Baptist and I know the heart of most baptists I grew up with and continue to meet are filled with a desire to know & love God through scripture. That is the main reason why you will see I have stuck primarily with verses from the Bible when I've posted on this board. Unfortunately, it is not bible verses I am seeing in response, but stereotypical untruths. That is not reflective of the Baptist community I know & love dearly. Ban me if you must.

[Jerry]

Jerry can probably locate them quicker than I, but there are a some quotes of Catholic priests around the time of the Reformation who talked about the fact that if the RCC hadn't been persecuting Baptists for over a century the Protestant revolt would have been much worse.

It's clear the RCC has done all they can to hide the fact true Christians have existed since the time of Christ and they were not Catholics because the Catholics continually tried to destroy them.

The actual quote mentions that the anabaptists/Waldensians were around for 1200 years, and indicated that they had a hard time trying to destroy them. If anyone needs me to, I can try to locate that exact quote.

[Jerry]

I know the beliefs of the Apostles - because that is what the New Testament is. However, the Catholic church is NOT in the NT - it was not even formed until the 4th century, the first real Pope came along in the 6th century.

Sorry, without trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for salvation - without any works on your part or the "prayers of the saints and Mary" - you are still as lost as can be. And according to Jesus, the Devil is your father until God adopts you as His child through faith in Jesus alone.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Leading others astray through false doctrine and apostate churches/religions is being a tool of the Devil - no other way to say it.

[Jerry]

Mrstain, if you were truly born again, you wouldn't have gone apostate and turned to the Catholic church. The Holy Spirit leads to truth, not away from it.

[Chelle]

Funny that you think the Catholic Faith, which is seen in ancient Christianity, is false; while the Baptist faith, which is not even 400 years old (see The World Almanac and Book of Facts 2007 page 718 for this fact, or any other not-historical revisionists source) is true.

The age of something determines whether it's true or not? Did you actually say/post that with a straight face? That is one of the evolutionists' and atheists' main arguments for rejecting the Bible: "It's over 2,000 years old so it can't be true."

Please. :roll Besides, being "seen in ancient Christianity" is not a reliable testimony to Catholicism's veracity either. Most of the history books have been written by people who don't even believe the Bible is true, so we can't really consider them authoritative on spiritual matters anyway.

[Psalms18_28]

If you are going for the oldest religion, you should pick Judism, better yet pagans. Many scholars claim that buddism (or hindi? sp?) is the oldest.

Forget traditions and oldest . Find out who God really is.

[Jerry]

Well, Biblically we know Judaism (and Christianity - the fulfillment of Judaism) is the oldest, because it is the only one based on the knowledge of the true God and the truths He has revealed. According to Genesis and Romans 1, every nation in the world up until the tower of Babel had the knowledge of the true God - then man turned from God and the Devil came up with more and more counterfeits.

[Psalms18_28]

True, just saying if anyone is concern about which is oldest religion not to stop at catholic,that's all.

[Guest Guest]

Mrstain' date=' if you were truly born again, you wouldn't have gone apostate and turned to the Catholic church. The Holy Spirit leads to truth, not away from it.[/quote']
What a ridiculous comment. Do you not believe in your own eternal security doctrine of once saved-always saved? Would I still be eternally secure if I just committed a petty larceny, adultery, or some other act you would deem sinful? What if I left the Baptist church and became a Methodist or Lutheran? Is becoming Catholic some greater "sin" that serves to take away my born-again experience? If you agree with that, does that mean you also now believe in different levels of sin? Seriously, how far outside of your own doctrines are you willing to go? Is this a reflection of doctrinal relativism I?m reading? Are you sure you are not Episcopalian?

Wait, maybe you are omniscient and are knowledgeable of my personal relationship with Jesus. Somehow, I think not.

The fact is, in this thread I?ve included several verses that relate specifically to the marks of the church as one in truth, universal in mission & apostolic in authority to retain the truth. Not once have I seen you or anyone else dispute these clearly biblical facts, so I will assume you agree with these identifying marks of the church. If I am wrong and you disagree with these indentifiable marks of the church, I will gladly refer you back to the KJV where I learned them all.

[Jerry]

A true believer would never turn from the truth and deliberately embrace error. Turning to the Catholic church is the same as if you became a Buddhist or a Muslim - it is a false religion, filled with lies and error. If you were truly saved, you wouldn't turn from the Biblical religion of grace through faith and received a religion/system of works. THAT is what tells me you are still lost, despite your claims. If you truly believed the Bible, you wouldn't be promoting a false religion opposed to it.

[Guest Guest]

A true believer would never turn from the truth and deliberately embrace error. Turning to the Catholic church is the same as if you became a Buddhist or a Muslim - it is a false religion' date=' filled with lies and error. If you were truly saved, you wouldn't turn from the Biblical religion of grace through faith and received a religion/system of works. THAT is what tells me you are still lost, despite your claims. If you truly believed the Bible, you wouldn't be promoting a false religion opposed to it.[/quote']
Wow. You dodged pretty much all of my questions ? which speaks volumes. Are you not prepared to give an answer? (1 Pet 3:15)

That?s ok. Let me then ask one question for clarification on your first sentence above. Do you believe deliberate violations of the commandments are errors? If so, does that mean you believe anyone who willingly violates a commandment -- after being born again -- is not a true believer?

By the way, you are incorrect in stating that the Catholic Church does not believe salvation is by Grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8, etc.). I'll assume it is just ignorance and not a willingness to bear false witness. (Ex 20:16)

Lastly, let me remind you again that is was that same Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, which canonized the Bible. You can't deny this historical fact. Also, I?d like to share one more thing for the viewing public, even though I?m sure you know this little secret in all your omniscient glory. The New Testamant of the KVJ is derived from the Textus Receptus, which is a translation by the Catholic Erasmus.

[Jerry]

Hm, Catholic church starts about the fourth century - yet somehow they were responsible for the Bible in the first century. Good logic - try again... (on another board, that is. Goodbye.)

[John81]

The actual quote mentions that the anabaptists/Waldensians were around for 1200 years, and indicated that they had a hard time trying to destroy them. If anyone needs me to, I can try to locate that exact quote.

Isn't one of these quotes located in Cloud's Encyclopedia of the Bible and Christianity?

I used to have a couple of these right handy that I posted a lot when dealing with Catholics and Orthodox but they must have got moved.