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Article on "Once Saved, Always Saved!"

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Please re-read my post (or read it for the first time if you haven't yet read it). STOP attacking our beliefs. No-one who has an ounce of knowledge of scripture believes that sin doesn't separate from God. But anyone who reads scripture and BELIEVES WHAT GOD SAYS knows that salvation is eternal.

coc- the prodigal son was about a young man who thought he knew better than his father and went into a riotous life until all of his money was spent. After being in the dregs of life for a while, it hit him that things had been better all along with his father. And so he returned, willing to take the place of a servant rather than a son. But the father, who had been watching for his son all this time (how else would he have known it was his son from a far way off?), proclaimed him as his son, even to the angering of his eldest son. Was that son really physically dead? Of course not. Was the father speaking spiritually? No - in the culture of that day, when a child walked away from the family's teachings (and it's still seen in at least the Muslim and Amish communities) they became as dead. Because the father obviously never gave up hope to see his son again, we know he didn't mean physical death, and we know that the father hoped always that the son would return.

Did the son have to become a baby again in order to again be a son? No - the father proclaimed that he was STILL his son and not a servant by calling for a robe and ring. The POSITION of sonship did not change. The relationship change between the father and the son was one of distance, but not the severing of father/sonhood.

It is much the same as today if someone's child walked away from the family and chose to go into the world. That child would still be a child of those parents, even if the parents mourned him/her as though there were a death. But if that child wakes up and comes home repentant, what joy will fill the home of that family.

In the same way, the child of the Heavenly Father may choose to turn his/her back. We are human and make unspiritual decisions that can lead to backsliding. The relationship change in a backsliding situation is not one of POSITION, but rather one of distance.

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I have not read through this entire thread, however, I have a problem with the "once saved, always saved" doctorine as taught by many Chrisitians when combined with the teaching and influencing one to say a "repeat after me" type prayer, and proclaiming that the person is saved because they said a prayer. Specifically, I think it can lead to a false sense of salvation in many instances, especially when children are involved.

For example, my brother said a prayer after a person witnessed to him when he was 8 years old. Many years later, it dawned on him that he did not really experience salvation at that point. God was not calling him at that point, and the person preasured him to say the prayer. He was baptized, and went many years believing that he would always be saved, even though he never experienced true salvation in the first place. Many years later, he struggled and confused by a feeling that he was not "saved" even though he prayed a prayer, grew up in the church, and had always been faithful in doing what he was supposed to do. Through much contemplation, he realzied he never had experienced salvation, and the burden he felt was being called by teh Holy Spirit to salvation and faith in Christ. He talked to many people who told him that he was saved and always would be, and this compounded his confusion. Finally, he realized the problem, and accepted the call to follow Christ.

I have seen many times children pray a prayer because a preacher told them to. I have seen at summer camps where many kids raise their hands that they prayed to accept Christ when the preacher led them in prayer. Many of these kids will then be told they will never lose their salvation. Are we certain their salvation was real in the beginning? It takes careful discernment when working with kids and teenagers. If we are not careful, then we will teach them that they are saved, will baptize them and add them to our numbers, and tell them they can never lose their salvation. When they grow into adults, how many stay faithful to church? How many try to follow the call of Chist on their lives? How many, who do not follow that call, believe they are saved because they said a prayer and were baptized? It is a grave injustice to our young people to to be very careful to discern a call of Christ on their lives and mere emotion or peer pressure to say a prayer, etc.

Now, I agree with the doctrine that once we have salvation, we will never loose it. However, we need to be very careful about how that is taught and how we deal with children, young people, and even adults. If we are the ones calling them to follow Christ, and they do not sense the call on their lives at that time, is God really calling them at that time? I do not believe a person can accept the call of Christ until, well, they are called by the Holy Spirit to follow. That is why it is of utmost importance in our conversations, to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, and to sense when he is working in one's life.

On the other extreme, are those who say you can lose your salvation. I once talked to a teenage boy who came up to me and said he was saved again. I said, what do you mean again? He said he was saved and baptized twice before, and this was his thrid time! He "got saved' every year at summer camp. Very confused person, and his church was doing him a grave injustice.

People can err both ways. Either giving people a false sense of a salvation that they have never received, or making them very insecure about their salvation. That is the trouble when we leave the Spirit of God out of the equation. We must be sensitive to his Spirit and how he is truly working in peoples lives.

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I have not read through this entire thread, however, I have a problem with the "once saved, always saved" doctorine as taught by many Chrisitians when combined with the teaching and influencing one to say a "repeat after me" type prayer, and proclaiming that the person is saved because they said a prayer. Specifically, I think it can lead to a false sense of salvation in many instances, especially when children are involved.

For example, my brother said a prayer after a person witnessed to him when he was 8 years old. Many years later, it dawned on him that he did not really experience salvation at that point. God was not calling him at that point, and the person preasured him to say the prayer. He was baptized, and went many years believing that he would always be saved, even though he never experienced true salvation in the first place. Many years later, he struggled and confused by a feeling that he was not "saved" even though he prayed a prayer, grew up in the church, and had always been faithful in doing what he was supposed to do. Through much contemplation, he realzied he never had experienced salvation, and the burden he felt was being called by teh Holy Spirit to salvation and faith in Christ. He talked to many people who told him that he was saved and always would be, and this compounded his confusion. Finally, he realized the problem, and accepted the call to follow Christ.

I have seen many times children pray a prayer because a preacher told them to. I have seen at summer camps where many kids raise their hands that they prayed to accept Christ when the preacher led them in prayer. Many of these kids will then be told they will never lose their salvation. Are we certain their salvation was real in the beginning? It takes careful discernment when working with kids and teenagers. If we are not careful, then we will teach them that they are saved, will baptize them and add them to our numbers, and tell them they can never lose their salvation. When they grow into adults, how many stay faithful to church? How many try to follow the call of Chist on their lives? How many, who do not follow that call, believe they are saved because they said a prayer and were baptized? It is a grave injustice to our young people to to be very careful to discern a call of Christ on their lives and mere emotion or peer pressure to say a prayer, etc.

Now, I agree with the doctrine that once we have salvation, we will never loose it. However, we need to be very careful about how that is taught and how we deal with children, young people, and even adults. If we are the ones calling them to follow Christ, and they do not sense the call on their lives at that time, is God really calling them at that time? I do not believe a person can accept the call of Christ until, well, they are called by the Holy Spirit to follow. That is why it is of utmost importance in our conversations, to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, and to sense when he is working in one's life.

On the other extreme, are those who say you can lose your salvation. I once talked to a teenage boy who came up to me and said he was saved again. I said, what do you mean again? He said he was saved and baptized twice before, and this was his thrid time! He "got saved' every year at summer camp. Very confused person, and his church was doing him a grave injustice.

People can err both ways. Either giving people a false sense of a salvation that they have never received, or making them very insecure about their salvation. That is the trouble when we leave the Spirit of God out of the equation. We must be sensitive to his Spirit and how he is truly working in peoples lives.


Interresting. We do run into a great deal of problems when we just listen to what others have to say. We do well to read the Bible for ourselves and follow what it says. Acts 17:11 teaches us this.

Could you explain to me what you are talking about when you speak of the Holy Spirit calling us?

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Interresting. We do run into a great deal of problems when we just listen to what others have to say. We do well to read the Bible for ourselves and follow what it says. Acts 17:11 teaches us this.

Could you explain to me what you are talking about when you speak of the Holy Spirit calling us?


I recall when I was 9 years old, I felt a distinct call from God to follow Christ. It did not come at church, it did not come from one witnessing to me (though it can certainly come in those contexts). Over the course of 2 or 3 days, I realized that God, through his Spirit, was impressing upon my heart a call to follow Chirst and devote my life to him. I am sure every person who has decided to follow Christ has had a similar call (at least all that I have talked to). It is the same Holy Spirit that leads us on a daily basis, convicts us of sin, urges us to share Christ with a person, urges us to pray for someone, etc. It is difficult to describe, but it is the call of God on our lives. I believe he calls everyone at some point during their lives, perhaps giving them multiple chances to accept the call.

In the Gospels, every disciple first received a call of Jesus, and then followed. The same occurred in the early church. On the day of Pentecost, the disciples received the Holy Spirit, and the crowd, convicted by the Holy Spirit, responded to that call, and God, through his Spirit, added to the numbers of believers daily.

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KoB is asking the right questions - the "salvation prayer" does not save - salvation requires evidence of the work of grace in the heart & life.

Salvation is new life, spiritual life, & that life cannot die. BUT spiritual life will always be evident in the Christian life. A faithful pastor will not reassure a backslider that he is secure because of a past decision or prayer. Nor should a person who has made a decision or prayer assume that he is saved.

OSAS is a dangerous doctrine when it is wrongly applied.

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Edited by Covenanter

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What is the one sin, one must repent of to go to heaven? What one sin is the sin that the symptoms and results of and are things such aids, drugs and alcohol, abortion, homosexuality, unwed mothers, sexual assault on or children. What one sin once repented of cannot be undone by man or anyone else?

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Which doctrine isn't? :)


Great point! When we fail to apply the Word of God as a whole we enter dangerous ground. We are not to overemphasize one aspect to the neglect of another.

One of the points which has had a negative impact in the area in question stems from the "judge not" and "God is love" (excluding that God is also a God of justice). There is the push to get folks "saved" by watering down the Gospel to the most simplest aspect, which leaves out many important matters, and telling folks all they have to do is pray a very short and simple "sinners prayer" (this prayer is often presented almost as if it's a 'magic' prayer) and they are now good with God and after a handshake or hug they are sent on their way.

Couple that unbiblical approach to spreading the Gospel with the idea we must not "judge" anyone or say anything that might "offend" someone and the problem grows. Scripture is clear that if we are saved there will be proof of our salvation in our changed lives and the fruit we bear. Scripture is equally clear that we are to examine our own lives to make sure we are truly born again. Today it's deemed a great insult and even as ungodly to point this out to those who proclaim to be Christians yet they live like the world, show no signs of true biblical fruit, etc.

Scripture says the greatest thing we can do for another, which exhibits true love, is to help them to be born again. In doing this Scripture makes it clear we must help the lost to see they are indeed lost and in need of salvation. Yet so much of professing Christianity today rejects the biblical model. They make "being saved" a simple matter of saying a "sinners prayer" and they abhor the idea of expecting all saved people showing signs of their salvation or that we should ever mention such to anyone. Actually discipling those who say these "sinners prayers" typically isn't even considered thought Scripture is clear we are to make DISCIPLES, not converts.

Scripture says we are to learn and keep the whole counsel of God and anytime we ignore or reject this we enter dangerous ground.

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A faithful pastor will not reassure a backslider that he is secure because of a past decision or prayer.

What's your definition of "backslider"? If the "backslider" was genuinely saved at one point, why wouldn't a "faithful pastor" re-assure the backslider of his salvation, and then encourage the backslider to get right with God?

That is, unless you don't belief in the Biblical doctrine of eternal security ...

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What's your definition of "backslider"? If the "backslider" was genuinely saved at one point, why wouldn't a "faithful pastor" re-assure the backslider of his salvation, and then encourage the backslider to get right with God?

That is, unless you don't belief in the Biblical doctrine of eternal security ...

We cannot read hearts, but we can read lives. You are reversing the Biblical order. How DARE you reassure a backslider that he is eternally secure?

The backslider (aka unrepentant sinner who has turned his back on the only Saviour) should be urged to repent. Assure him he is saved on the basis of some past profession regardless of his present profession & you are securing Satan's grip on a lost sinner.

I do believe in eternal security for those who walk with their Lord. I am kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

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The backslider (aka unrepentant sinner who has turned his back on the only Saviour) should be urged to repent. Assure him he is saved on the basis of some past profession regardless of his present profession & you are securing Satan's grip on a lost sinner.

If his past profession is that he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, was born-again into the family of God through the Spirit, and sealed to the day of redemption, then that will be his present profession though he be backsliden in his walk with Christ.

If his present profession is that he never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, or wasn't sincere in his past belief, then it's likely he was never saved to begin with.

A backslider may turn his back on his Saviour, but that doesn't mean his Saviour turns his back on him and doesn't try and call him back into fellowship, because that is what the backsliding condition is all about - losing fellowship with the Lord, not losing your salvation.

Note how in the following verse Israel was backsliden yet still called God the "Lord their God" and "the LORD our God". This same principle applies with a Christian who backslides, God still remains his Lord and Saviour.

Jeremiah 3:21- A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the LORD their God. 22 Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

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If his past profession is that he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, was born-again into the family of God through the Spirit, and sealed to the day of redemption, then that will be his present profession though he be backsliden in his walk with Christ.

No redeemed sinner will nor can be lost. Our Saviour's word is at stake.

Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

However that is his present position in Christ, not his present backsliding profession.

We cannot read the heart - if his salvation was real, he will return & repent. Until he does, we cannot, must not, accept such a one as a saved person.

Jhn 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


If his present profession is that he never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, or wasn't sincere in his past belief, then it's likely he was never saved to begin with.

Can you show an clear Biblical way of distinguishing between a saved backslider & an unsaved person, both of whom once made a credible profession of faith, but no longer walk in faith?

A backslider may turn his back on his Saviour, but that doesn't mean his Saviour turns his back on him and doesn't try and call him back into fellowship, because that is what the backsliding condition is all about - losing fellowship with the Lord, not losing your salvation.

Our responsibility is to call the backslider to repentance - his present condition is one of unbelief & without repentance he is lost. Indeed, if his profession appeared so genuine that all took him to be saved, & walking in the Spirit, then his present position is desperate. The warnings of Hebrews apply:

Hbr 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.



Note how in the following verse Israel was backsliden yet still called God the "Lord their God" and "the LORD our God". This same principle applies with a Christian who backslides, God still remains his Lord and Saviour.

Jeremiah 3:21- A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the LORD their God. 22 Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

The LORD is God, whether we believe or not. Jeremiah ministered to a rebellious Israel, who were under judgement. To how many of the nation did these words apply: Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God. ??? Not many.

Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Be warned - no-one should listen to your dangerous words:

Jer 23:16 ¶ Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, [and] not out of the mouth of the LORD.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Edited by Covenanter

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The sad fact today is that it's considered to be mean-spirited, even unchristian, to do exactly what the Bible says and call those who are backslidden and those who profess to be Christians but don't bear the fruit of repentance, to examine themselves in light of Scripture, repent and fully turn to Christ.

I weep within my soul when I think of how many who think they are okay with God will one day hear the Lord tell them that He never knew them before He casts them into eternal hell.

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No redeemed sinner will nor can be lost. Our Saviour's word is at stake.

Jhn 5:24 ¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Amen Covenanter, you said it, God's word verifies it! thumb.gif

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Amen Covenanter, you said it, God's word verifies it! thumb.gif

Soj, Jesus words are absolutely true, but your teaching is false, in that you give the backslider assurance in his condition where he rejects Jesus' word, has ceased to believe, and gives evidence that he is dead in sin.

Don't pretend to agree with what I have taught from God's word, when you reject it.

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Jhn 5:24 ¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

dantheman2:
The word "hath" in John 5:24 is from the Greek word "echei." Can someone explain this word in context of the teaching of having eternal life?

Can you explain the problem?

We are by nature dead in trespasses and sins. Jesus gives life - eternal life to believers. If we have eternal life we will live that life, as Paul writes:

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

It is unthinkable that redeemed sinners should return to their sin, AND that their pastors should reassure them of salvation, while they continue in sinful unbelief.

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Jhn 5:24 ¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


Can you explain the problem?

We are by nature dead in trespasses and sins. Jesus gives life - eternal life to believers. If we have eternal life we will live that life, as Paul writes:

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

It is unthinkable that redeemed sinners should return to their sin, AND that their pastors should reassure them of salvation, while they continue in sinful unbelief.


No problem. I am just asking a question. I would like someone to look at the Greek word for "hath" and then discuss it in relation to the present discussion of eternal security.

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Jhn 5:24 ¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


Can you explain the problem?

We are by nature dead in trespasses and sins. Jesus gives life - eternal life to believers. If we have eternal life we will live that life, as Paul writes:

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

It is unthinkable that redeemed sinners should return to their sin, AND that their pastors should reassure them of salvation, while they continue in sinful unbelief.


Yes, I'm late here as usual. I just want to clarify and your yes or no is fine for me. Covenanter, are you saying we'll never sin after we're saved? That we will not have forgiveness if we as Christians sin?

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Don't pretend to agree with what I have taught from God's word, when you reject it.

Covenanter, all that YOU have taught me from God's word is that it can be used wrongly to justify your false doctrine, and of course you would say the same about me. dry.gif

Again for the audience - The eternal security of the New Testament Christian is a wonderful TRUTH of scripture, don't be fooled by those who attack this blessed doctrine, they are deceived by Satan that God's gift of eternal life can be lost by backsliding and sin, which every one of us is capable of doing.

Covenanter, how many times have you lost your salvation and then regained it again? Or do you make the claim that you have never backsliden or sinned against God since becoming a Christian?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

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Here we go again, one wants to, our does he say he is our teacher, and another one wants to use a version of scripture (which mind you he does not have nor has ever seen).

As for me all the yap yap yap of those that do not believe the Biblical doctrine of eternal security and are going to argue until we give in to their false beliefs and or teachings.saywhat.gif

I'm just a country boy, country preacher and even I understand that eternal and everlasting mean just that. And if that isn't good enough for you then I ask you to please call my Saviour a liar and tell Him that you have decided what eternal and everlasting means.

Just saying either Christ bible.gif is right or runforhills.gif

Edited by Bro Jim

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Covenanter, all that YOU have taught me from God's word is that it can be used wrongly to justify your false doctrine, and of course you would say the same about me. dry.gif

Again for the audience - The eternal security of the New Testament Christian is a wonderful TRUTH of scripture, don't be fooled by those who attack this blessed doctrine, they are deceived by Satan that God's gift of eternal life can be lost by backsliding and sin, which every one of us is capable of doing.

Covenanter, how many times have you lost your salvation and then regained it again? Or do you make the claim that you have never backsliden or sinned against God since becoming a Christian?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


What Covenater has said is that we can't know for certain the difference between a Believer who is backslidden and a false believer who has fallen away. A true Believer who backslides is still saved while the false believer who falls away was never saved to begin with. While God knows who is who, we can't know for sure.

If we think one is a true Believer who is backslidden, but in reality they are actually a lost false believer, and we give them a false belief that they are saved no matter what, we may accidently be helping the enemy, giving them a false sense of security and helping them to feel okay about going back to their favorite sins.

Scripture teaches that each of us, if we find ourselves in what might be viewed as a backslidden condition, or as bearing no good fruit, or of following false doctrines and teachings rather than accepting and obeying the Word of God, we are to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith or not.

We who are born again Believers are to take the same position as we try and help those who may be backsliders or false believers. It's our duty to help them see the need to examine themselves and to help them do this if they will allow us to. If they sincerely examine themselves and they are backslidden Believers, the Holy Ghost will make it known to them and convict them of their sin and call them to repentance and restoration. If that happens, we can rejoice that they were, and still are, saved and have returned to the path of righteousness.

If it turns out the Holy Ghost convicts them that they have never surrendered to Christ and are in need of being born again, we may have the pleasure of helping a lost one be saved.

Better to take the biblical approach of examination of salvation than to assume for certain whether one is an actual Believer who is backslidden and risk dealing with one who isn't born again and giving them improper guidance.

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