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Article on "Once Saved, Always Saved!"


ELI3

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This isn't true. Catholics believe in verial and mortal sins, and if you commit a mortal sin you lose your salvation unless you confess it to a priest (catholic) fast enough. They also believe that assurance of salvation - ie belief - is a sin, and also "believe" that babies if baptised are saved - but where is the belief in that? From the moment of water baptism, "belief" and faith has no meaning in a catholic setting. Believing has nothing to do with being saved. Being marked on the forehead by a priest is what has meaning in the catholic church. Paul says accursed is he that brings in any different gospel than the one he taught.
Edited by MaxKennedy
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If he was truly saved to begin with, yes he is still saved.
There's a BIG difference in a child of God, born from above, and a mere "professing Christian".
But real children of God, have and do sometimes live in unbelief. But it is God who is faithful.
The prodigal son, left his father, but he was still a son.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.


the problem is that since we are saved by faith, you have asserted that a man with no faith is saved.
Also, you did not quote the whole verse, and totally misapplied the last clause! It says if we deny Him, He will deny us. Period. And Christ told the 12 that if they denied Him before men He would deny them before the Father-Matt.10. The Bible speaks of those who depart from the faith, those whose faith has been destroyed, those who shipwreck faith, and faith that only endures for awhile.

The story of the Prodigal Son was not given to teach OSAS, it was to get Jews to understand the mercy of God in Christ being kind and accepting ot the Samaritans. The point is that if a Samaritan repents, the Father will gladly receive him back. So should the elder brothers--the Jews. To insert OSAS here is to read the story out of context and twist it. Interestingly, in John 15:1-6, we are told to abide in HIm, and He in us, and every branch in HIm that does not abide will wither, die and ultimately be gathered for a burning. OSAS is not only unBiblical, but utterly dangerous to men's souls and a believer's sanctification and desires to be holy and live an overcoming life.
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Also, you did not quote the whole verse, and totally misapplied the last clause! It says if we deny Him, He will deny us. Period.

Here's the whole passage:

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

In verse 12 it does say "he will deny us", but what will he deny? The colon in the middle of verse 12 gives us the answer "reign with him". If we deny living for Christ and suffering ("if we suffer") for him in this life then he will deny our reign with him in the next, but it's not a denying of salvation. The Christian is already born again and in Christ, it's a done deal, he can't be unborn and fall out of Christ, "he cannot deny himself".

The Bible speaks of those who depart from the faith, those whose faith has been destroyed, those who shipwreck faith, and faith that only endures for awhile.

The only faith that saves is the "faith of Jesus Christ", it's not the faith in Jesus Christ, it's not our faith that saves us, it's His. The faith of Christ is a gift to us who believe in Him for salvation.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

OSAS is a blessed truth of scripture! Edited by Soj
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Once Saved, Always Saved!

For instance, consider an apple tree: it doesn't bear apples to become an apple tree; neither does it bear apples to stay an apple tree. It bears apples because God made it an apple tree.



Interresting illustration. Why don't we consider for a moment another illustration. We will use your own statement changing on the word apple to fig and apples into figs.

"...it doesn't bear FIGS to become a FIG tree; neither does it bear FIGS to stay a FIG tree. It bears FIGS because GOd made it a FIG tree." What happened to the fig tree which did not produce figs (Mark 11:13ff)? Was it never really a fig tree because it did not bear figs? By your own statement it was still a fig tree though it did not bear fruit. What response did Christ have to the fig tree that bore no fruit? What does that teach us about this very subject? Hmmmmm.......

We might further discuss Luke 13:6ff to better understand this.
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Could someone who holds the view of "once saved always saved" explain something to me? I have heard those who believe in this doctrine claim that if a person "fell away" then he was "never saved in the first place." By this argument, how could one ever really know that he was indeed saved to start with since at some point he might turn to sin and then would in fact never have been saved in the first place.

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I am going to take the Bible for what it says. Eternal life, everlasting life, never leave me nor forsake me.

I use this illustration and it has become even more real to me because of my own son.

When we have a child born to us is there anything that can make that child no longer our child.

I have a son who has gone as far away from what he has been taught is right you can say he has done a 180 degree turn from the way he was brought up. He even got to the point he had to be told, "Do not return until you get right."

Is he no longer my son? If he denies me as his father is he no longer my son? If he changes his name, is he no longer my son? If he suffers from so unknown disease, has reaction to some drug, illicit or not, and his brain or reasoning somehow malfunctions, is he no longer my son?

What does that have to do with eternal security? Because that is what it is, eternal security. Once I have become a child of God, I am a child of God. No one, not me, you or anyone else can change that. My son will always be my son and I will be his dad.

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I am going to take the Bible for what it says. Eternal life, everlasting life, never leave me nor forsake me.

I use this illustration and it has become even more real to me because of my own son.

When we have a child born to us is there anything that can make that child no longer our child.

I have a son who has gone as far away from what he has been taught is right you can say he has done a 180 degree turn from the way he was brought up. He even got to the point he had to be told, "Do not return until you get right."

Is he no longer my son? If he denies me as his father is he no longer my son? If he changes his name, is he no longer my son? If he suffers from so unknown disease, has reaction to some drug, illicit or not, and his brain or reasoning somehow malfunctions, is he no longer my son?

What does that have to do with eternal security? Because that is what it is, eternal security. Once I have become a child of God, I am a child of God. No one, not me, you or anyone else can change that. My son will always be my son and I will be his dad.


:amen:
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Here's the whole passage:

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

In verse 12 it does say "he will deny us", but what will he deny? The colon in the middle of verse 12 gives us the answer "reign with him". If we deny living for Christ and suffering ("if we suffer") for him in this life then he will deny our reign with him in the next, but it's not a denying of salvation. The Christian is already born again and in Christ, it's a done deal, he can't be unborn and fall out of Christ, "he cannot deny himself".


The only faith that saves is the "faith of Jesus Christ", it's not the faith in Jesus Christ, it's not our faith that saves us, it's His. The faith of Christ is a gift to us who believe in Him for salvation.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

OSAS is a blessed truth of scripture!



Your interpretation of 2Tim 2 :12 is clearly incorrect. It lists different things. If we suffer with HIm--will will reign with Him in the Millenium. But if we DENY HIM rather than suffer, He will deny us. Christ already made it plain what He would do and what it meant. He would I say that He does not know us before the Father and the angels. This is about salvation, not about denying us a reign. That is simply a side-step some have come up with the blunt the force of all the verses that disprove OSAS. So they admit it teaches a form of loss, but it will be some millenial loss. That is clearly an Ad Hoc theory to save OSAS. It was never arrived at by a careful, inductive study of the Bible. OSAS apologists came up with this idea to save their unBiblical doctrine.

The last part is misused to deny the previous clause! It says if we become faithless--if we believers stop believing--believe not, He stays the same--faithful. Clearly it is possible, under the pressure of suffering, to not only deny the Lord, but to cease to believe. Even though we would deny Him, He doesn't change, for He cannot deny Himself. Therefore, if we are to be like Him, we must not deny Him either.

That verse absolutely refutes OSAS. The spin offered by OSAS apologists is obvious.

Next we are offered a theory that its not our faith that saved us, but Christs. Its given to us, and since its His, it can't fail. Well 2Tim 2:12 denies this. We all know of real believers who bore fruit, that later fell away, and some deny the reality of Christianity now.

Also, this idea shows a lack of understandingof this language. Christ told the woman "Daughter, YOUR FAITH has saved you"-Luke 7:50. In Eph 1:13 Paul we says we first trusted in Christ after we heard the gospel. This idea that its Christ's faith and not ours is nonsense. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The reason its the faith "of" Christ is because the message is about Christ. That message stirs faith in us. There is no support for OSAS with arguments like these. They are clearly artificial and contrived
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Your interpretation of 2Tim 2 :12 is clearly incorrect. It lists different things. If we suffer with HIm--will will reign with Him in the Millenium. But if we DENY HIM rather than suffer, He will deny us. Christ already made it plain what He would do and what it meant. He would I say that He does not know us before the Father and the angels. This is about salvation, not about denying us a reign. That is simply a side-step some have come up with the blunt the force of all the verses that disprove OSAS. So they admit it teaches a form of loss, but it will be some millenial loss. That is clearly an Ad Hoc theory to save OSAS. It was never arrived at by a careful, inductive study of the Bible. OSAS apologists came up with this idea to save their unBiblical doctrine.

The last part is misused to deny the previous clause! It says if we become faithless--if we believers stop believing--believe not, He stays the same--faithful. Clearly it is possible, under the pressure of suffering, to not only deny the Lord, but to cease to believe. Even though we would deny Him, He doesn't change, for He cannot deny Himself. Therefore, if we are to be like Him, we must not deny Him either.

That verse absolutely refutes OSAS. The spin offered by OSAS apologists is obvious.

Next we are offered a theory that its not our faith that saved us, but Christs. Its given to us, and since its His, it can't fail. Well 2Tim 2:12 denies this. We all know of real believers who bore fruit, that later fell away, and some deny the reality of Christianity now.

Also, this idea shows a lack of understandingof this language. Christ told the woman "Daughter, YOUR FAITH has saved you"-Luke 7:50. In Eph 1:13 Paul we says we first trusted in Christ after we heard the gospel. This idea that its Christ's faith and not ours is nonsense. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The reason its the faith "of" Christ is because the message is about Christ. That message stirs faith in us. There is no support for OSAS with arguments like these. They are clearly artificial and contrived

You said: "Incorrect, side-step, theory, unbiblical, misused, spin, lack of understanding, nonsense, artificial and contrived."

Faith1611, judging by the fruit of your reply, you can't surely expect me to believe you are speaking by the Spirit of God and representing the truth of God? If the belief you hold to on this subject leads you to communicating in this manner to your 'Christian brethren' then I want nothing to do with it.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

To me you are nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, but your sheep's disguise is weak, I can see the wolf a mile away. I hope the administrators of this forum can too.
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You said: "Incorrect, side-step, theory, unbiblical, misused, spin, lack of understanding, nonsense, artificial and contrived."

Faith1611, judging by the fruit of your reply, you can't surely expect me to believe you are speaking by the Spirit of God and representing the truth of God? If the belief you hold to on this subject leads you to communicating in this manner to your 'Christian brethren' then I want nothing to do with it.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

To me you are nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, but your sheep's disguise is weak, I can see the wolf a mile away. I hope the administrators of this forum can too.


Amen Soj, anotherone who wants to ask a question and then proceed to "straighten" people out. Edited by Bro Jim
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You said: "Incorrect, side-step, theory, unbiblical, misused, spin, lack of understanding, nonsense, artificial and contrived."

Faith1611, judging by the fruit of your reply, you can't surely expect me to believe you are speaking by the Spirit of God and representing the truth of God? If the belief you hold to on this subject leads you to communicating in this manner to your 'Christian brethren' then I want nothing to do with it.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

To me you are nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, but your sheep's disguise is weak, I can see the wolf a mile away. I hope the administrators of this forum can too.


false doctrine, wrong, non -Scriptural doctrines, damnable heresy, heretic are all words that have been used against me on this site; I haven't heard any complaints about that.....
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false doctrine, wrong, non -Scriptural doctrines, damnable heresy, heretic are all words that have been used against me on this site; I haven't heard any complaints about that.....



Well, that is called hypocrisy. The response to my post, which offered Scriptural exegesis and argument, was met with a personal attack claiming I am not saved, but a wolf! And this same individual complained about how I spoke and the words I used, and then called me a wolf. That sure is easier than admitting they can't answer my points and they are guilty of twisting Scripture. Edited by Faith1611
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You said: "Incorrect, side-step, theory, unbiblical, misused, spin, lack of understanding, nonsense, artificial and contrived."

Faith1611, judging by the fruit of your reply, you can't surely expect me to believe you are speaking by the Spirit of God and representing the truth of God? If the belief you hold to on this subject leads you to communicating in this manner to your 'Christian brethren' then I want nothing to do with it.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

To me you are nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, but your sheep's disguise is weak, I can see the wolf a mile away. I hope the administrators of this forum can too.



So you call me a wolf after complaining about the words I used? You take it to this level, and claim I am hell-bound? This is hypocrisy. You claim I am not speaking by the Spirit of God? You surely are not because I am a born again believer who loves Jesus Christ and has been saved by Him. I am an elder in my church. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of truth, and what I wrote is true, therefore it is of the Spirit of God, Your response was not only a lie, but evasive as well. My post offered exegesis and argument. You avoided that, and instead seek to paint me as a deceiver so others won't listen. Such tactics are surely diabolical. Edited by Faith1611
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So you call me a wolf after complaining about the words I used? You take it to this level, and claim I am hell-bound? This is hypocrisy. You claim I am not speaking by the Spirit of God? You surely are not because I am a born again believer who loves Jesus Christ and has been saved by Him. I am an elder in my church. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of truth, and what I wrote is true, therefore it is of the Spirit of God, Your response was not only a lie, but evasive as well. My post offered exegesis and argument. You avoided that, and instead seek to paint me as a deceiver so others won't listen. Such tactics are surely diabolical.


Faith1611, the way I see it from here, you joined this forum 2 days ago and never made the effort to introduce yourself. You immediately dived into the Salvation Forum and began claiming that Christians can lose their salvation, 5 out of the mere 6 posts you've typed have argued against the belief that many of us hold dear, the eternal security of the believer. Several of your posts have been very confrontational and you have made some harsh accusations.

Jesus said "by their fruits ye shall know them", and I'm inspecting your fruit and it looks rotten to me.

Why are you here? Did you come for fellowship, to be edified, or just to debate? If your intentions for being here are honourable then why didn't you introduce yourself to the other members when you joined, and why is their no information about you in your profile?

So this is where I'm coming from when I say you're a wolf. Please prove me wrong with a Christ-like reply and I'll gladly apologize?
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Faith1611, the way I see it from here, you joined this forum 2 days ago and never made the effort to introduce yourself. You immediately dived into the Salvation Forum and began claiming that Christians can lose their salvation, 5 out of the mere 6 posts you've typed have argued against the belief that many of us hold dear, the eternal security of the believer. Several of your posts have been very confrontational and you have made some harsh accusations.

Jesus said "by their fruits ye shall know them", and I'm inspecting your fruit and it looks rotten to me.

Why are you here? Did you come for fellowship, to be edified, or just to debate? If your intentions for being here are honourable then why didn't you introduce yourself to the other members when you joined, and why is their no information about you in your profile?

So this is where I'm coming from when I say you're a wolf. Please prove me wrong with a Christ-like reply and I'll gladly apologize?


:amen: Plus the fact Scripture teaches that if we are saved, we are eternally saved. Upon salvation we are born again into the family of God and receive at that moment everlasting life.
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