Judging others salvation

[deputydog530]

My Pastor and I were talking the other day about how often man entangles his traditions or own thinking :ideas: into scripture and does not even realize it, and how careful we must be to be sure we are letting scripture interpret scripture.

One area I have noticed being around many of the bretheren is the judgement of weather or not someone is saved.

We preach salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and that it is a gift Eph 2:8-9, Rom 10:9-13 etc.

Then when Christian sins or does not walk as we think they should walk the accusations fly of "he is not saved" "she can't be saved" etc.

Yes James said faith without works is dead and Christ said by thier fruits we will know them, but I see us (meaning IFB carrying it to far many times based on our own thoughts and beliefs.

The Lord is the only one that knows the heart, its our job to teach and pray for the bretheren.

My point is we judge salvation by a persons works many times, when we should be on our knees for them.

Just wanted to share some thoughts on the matter. Anyone else notice this in the Christian walk? or am I :loco :lol:

[Jerry]

I agree that we can't judge someone's salvation by their temporary fruit - but we can judge their salvation based on their testimony and believes (ie. does their profession line up with the Word of God). Of course they could be feeding you what you wanted to hear - we can only go on what they say - good thing that though we can judge based on the Bible, we are not THE Judge.

[deputydog530]

Amen Jerry I wouldnt want the job as divine judge. The Holy Spirit has just shown me lately that we need not be pointing fingers but rather praying and sharing scrpture with these folks. We cant go wrong that way. If they are the Lord's he will do the spankings :smile

[Colin Stolzer]

I don't know if you saw this other thread but we were just discussing some of this over here: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=22192&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

C

[Pastorj]

I would never tell a person who claims to be saved, they are unsaved. However, I would continue to witness to anyone who I felt did not have a clear salvation testimony. Just last week I led a 70 somthing year old man to the Lord who "thought" he was saved as a child. He wasn't living like a Christian, had to spiritual desires and I asked him "why he thought he was saved". His answer, "My mother told me I was and I was baptized." Obviously he has lived his whole life and no one questioned his salvation. This man would have died and gone to hell if I didn't follow the Lord's leading to question his salvation. There are a couple more people in my church that I hope to have this same conversation with.

[Anon]

Obviously we shouldn't go around pointing fingers but the Bible does say there are definite signs of saved/unsaved to where if someone is showing signs of being unsaved we should pray for them more and try to be a help, though we would not directly contradict them if they claim to be saved.

[deputydog530]

:goodpost:

My Pastor's own testamony is that he thought he was saved as a 5 year old boy. He lived the christian life, walked the walk and talked the talk, then about age 20 he realized he was doing to please his parents. He drove to the Church, found the Pastor and got saved. He and I talked much about this. Was he saved as a boy and just recommited his life at age 20? or was he really not saved. Who knows other than God. One thing is for sure we must make sure and continue to witness even to the bretheren.

As for me, knowing where I was at age 23 and where the Lord has brought me, there is no doubt im His. Many Christains who grew up in a Christain home have told me it is a little harder because of being raised in a "Christian" envornment. Does anyone else feel that way?

The change in my life was so radical and so out of my control, I struggle when someone grows up christian, maybe is even a preacher and then gets saved. Praise God he is in control and not me.

again thanks for the great posts, keepem coming :clap:

[Pastorj]

To prevent this with my children, I ask them for their testimony every so often. They were both saved at 4. They remember their salvation experience as if it were yesterday. Sometimes, my son's behavior concerns me in regards to his salvation, but when I ask him if he is saved, he knows he is saved and why so I don't push it.

[Madeline]

It is a concern (or should be) when we see a brother or sister sinning openly. There are many sins we can't see. It doesn't help anyone to simply attack them, especially those who are new in Christ. We are to alert a brother or sister that sin is serious and they should reexamine their choices and repent of any unforgiven sins. And we're told that when we warn others we should be on the alert that we're not drawn into sin in the doing. Yes, we should be in prayer regarding anything like that happening among us. What Christians sometimes forget is that there are sins that they can't see so there is no real ability for us to know when a sister or brother in Christ sinning unless it is open and defiant sin. Also sometimes things are claimed to be sins when they are not sins... so we should be very careful before we make claims that may not be true.

Love,
Madeline

[deputydog530]

:goodpost:
My point exactly. Sin should be confronted yet it isnt good works or lack of sin that saves us. Its the gift of God by grace through faith, remembering anyone and stumble yet the lord upholds us with his hand.

Psa 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
Psa 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
:amen:

[godsgurlie_077]

My Pastor's own testamony is that he thought he was saved as a 5 year old boy. He lived the christian life, walked the walk and talked the talk, then about age 20 he realized he was doing to please his parents. He drove to the Church, found the Pastor and got saved. He and I talked much about this. Was he saved as a boy and just recommited his life at age 20? or was he really not saved. Who knows other than God. One thing is for sure we must make sure and continue to witness even to the bretheren.

As for me, knowing where I was at age 23 and where the Lord has brought me, there is no doubt I'm His. Many Christians who grew up in a Christian home have told me it is a little harder because of being raised in a "Christian" environment. Does anyone else feel that way?

The change in my life was so radical and so out of my control, I struggle when someone grows up Christian, maybe is even a preacher and then gets saved. Praise God he is in control and not me.

again thanks for the great posts, keepem coming

I was raised in a Christian home and felt it was really hard because everyone knew my dad even some of the kids in the neighborhood they picked on me and a bunch of other things and then I started following the crowd who did what was wrong and tried to please them. While living that life trying to please the secular world I would also try to show people at church I was a Christian but really I wasn't. I even missed church a few times with out my parents knowing of course. I purely became saved when I was younger because of my parents.Did everything to make Them happy. I realized for the first time little over a year ago that God really is amazing and that I truly wanted to be saved without anyone telling me. This was after I searched the scriptures and heard a message of the pastor from that church and went home and knelt and prayed and asked God truly to save me. I guess what I am trying to say is being the daughter of Christian parents people thought differently about me and viewed me as being "Perfect" which I am not and never will be.

[Bakershalfdozen]

As for me, knowing where I was at age 23 and where the Lord has brought me, there is no doubt im His. Many Christains who grew up in a Christain home have told me it is a little harder because of being raised in a "Christian" envornment. Does anyone else feel that way?

Yes. This is a definite problem among many kids who grew up in a Christian home. When they hear glowing testimonies by people who were saved out of a life of drugs, alcohol, etc. and have seen a drastic change, they often feel they have nothing to compare that to--that they haven't seen a change in their life because their life is church and Christianity. If they grew up in a high pressure church environment like I did where everything was critiqued under the microscope of "if you do that, you're probably not even saved!", it makes it especially difficult on an impressionable child. They spend their life doubting, wondering and "making sure".

I like what one preacher wrote, "It isn't our petition God values so much as our faith" - faith that God will do what He said.

I think the person who grows up like that can see a definite change at true salvation. If they are a young child, they might stop lying like they used to or as an older kid, really understand that their sin is offensive to God and ask for mercy and forgiveness. Their desires will be for God.

[deputydog530]

Thanks for sharing that godsgurlie_077

We all had that desire at sometime to please a parent or other family member. I fear that as I hear these testamonies it is more common than we like to think.

When the rapture happens, I think there will be a lot of "church" people left behind, and others that will meet the Lord in the air that we would have never thought they were saved. :coffee

[godsgurlie_077]

Thanks for sharing that godsgurlie_077

We all had that desire at sometime to please a parent or other family member. I fear that as I hear these testamonies it is more common than we like to think.

When the rapture happens, I think there will be a lot of "church" people left behind, and others that will meet the Lord in the air that we would have never thought they were saved. :coffee

I agree there are many people out there who say they are Christians when there fruit doesn't show it recently I heard a verse in a different context about God looking at the heart and man looking at the outside. If man is looking at the outside we ought to be like Christ and show it. The outside ought to show what the inside is. If someone is judging righteous judgment and seeing how one acts on the outside then usually it shows how their heart is.

I know as I am an adult now that what I did was wrong especially missing church without my parents knowing but I am so thankful that God forgives and that when we repent our sins are blotted out.

Isaiah 44:21-23
21Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

23Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

As we read these verses we see that it says the Lord has blotted out the sins of Jacob and Israel we know if he did it with them he would do it with us. That is such an encouragement. I remember going to a Sunday school class when I was visiting Hamilton while I was living in Alberta, this person said that God puts our sin in a box after we repent and locks it and throws away the box and key. I remember being very encouraged because God forgets our sin. It says in Isaiah that are sins will be as white as snow and that means that they are washed away. Here is a verse that also encouraged me and that was the one I was just talking about.

Isaiah 1:18
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.