Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Bakershalfdozen

Peter or Paul

Recommended Posts

Was Peter the first "Pope"?

Was Peter ever in Rome?

When Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep, what/who was He referring to?

What group of people does the Bible say Peter was the Apostle to?

What group of people does the Bible say Paul was the Apostle to?


Was Paul ever in Rome?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was Peter the first "Pope"?

Was Peter ever in Rome?

When Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep, what/who was He referring to?

What group of people does the Bible say Peter was the Apostle to?

What group of people does the Bible say Paul was the Apostle to?


Was Paul ever in Rome?

[marquee][/marquee]


Yes, Paul went to Rome and was imprisioned. He was beheaded accordingto tradition on the Ostian road a few miles outside of Rome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was Peter the first "Pope"?

Was Peter ever in Rome?

When Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep, what/who was He referring to?

What group of people does the Bible say Peter was the Apostle to?

What group of people does the Bible say Paul was the Apostle to?


Was Paul ever in Rome?

Peter was not the first "Pope"...in fact you won't find any mention of "Pope" in Scriptures.

I don't believe Peter was ever in Rome..I would think Paul would have mentioned Peter in his epistle to the Romans if Peter had been there.

Peter was referring to believers in Christ....His Church/Body (John 10)

Peter was the Apostle to the "circumcision"---the Jews...however he did open the door for the Gospel to be preached to the Gentiles in the home of Cornelius (Acts 10)

Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles...but it was always his custom to go to the Jew first (Romans 1:16)

Paul was imprisoned in Rome twice and martyred there...I believe he was beheaded there around 69 A.D. (not sure of the year).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Vatican City came about when the first Pope/Emporer Constantine "converted" to Roman Catholism - a religion he basically invented that incorporated all of the various pagan temples, as well as their gods and godesses and pagan practices, under the guise of "Christianity" - a perfect example of the perversion of truth by Satan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

St. Clement of Rome

The first of the Patristic writings I'll quote is from St. Clement I's "Letter to the Corinthians" (dated to either AD 82 or 92-101). The portions I copied below are from pages 10-11 of Vol. 1 of Fr. William Jurgens' THE FAITH OF THE EARLY FATHERS (The Order of St. Benedict, Inc., Collegeville: 1970):

[44, 1] Our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned, and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry. As for these, then, who were appointed by them, or who were afterwards appointed by other illustrious men with the consent of the whole Church, and who have ministered to the flock of Christ without blame, humbly, peaceably and with dignity, and who have for many years received the commendations of all, we consider it unjust that they be removed from the ministry. Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its Sacrifices. Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release; for they have now no fear that any shall transfer them from the place to which they are appointed. For we see that in spite of their good service you have removed some from the ministry in which they served without blame.

[47, 6] Shameful, beloved, extremely shameful, and unworthy of your training in Christ, is the report that on account of one or two persons the well established and ancient Church of the Corinthians is in revolt against the presbyters. And this report has come not only to us, but even to those professing other faiths than ours, so that by your folly you heap blasphemies on the name of the Lord, and create a danger for yourselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

ok, but i am finding that excuse to not work for me anymore, i am actually finding multiple early church fathers saying about the same thing. Shouldnt that make ya think? It has for me...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

St. Ignatius of Antioch

I'll quote from a Protestant translation of St. Ignatius of Antioch's (c. AD 107) "Letter to the Romans." The following text is from Maxwell Staniforth and Andrew Louth's EARLY CHRISTIAN WRITINGS (Penguin Books: 1968, 1987; page 85):

"From IGNATIUS, whose other name is Theophorus: To her who has found mercy in the greatness of the All Highest Father, and Jesus Christ His only Son, to the church beloved and enlightened in her love to our God Jesus Christ by the will of Him who wills all things; to the church holding chief place in the territories of the district of ROME--worthy of God, worthy of honour, blessing, praise, and success; worthy too in holiness, foremost in love, observing the law of Christ, and bearing the Father's name."

This is from the preface of St. Ignatius' letter to the Romans while on his journey to martyrdom in Rome during the reign of Trajan. Assuming you have read all the letters of the Bishop of Antioch, you will recall how St. Ignatius did not address any of the other churches in terms expressing such high respect, honor, veneration, and deference.

I argue that St. Ignatius would show such reverence to the Church in Rome only because he knew it holds a unique authority only that Church can wield. Another piece of evidence for this is from St. Ignatius' "Letter to the Romans," 3.1:

"It was never your way to grudge anyone his success. You have been a SOURCE OF INSTRUCTION to others; all I want is for the principles which you expound by your teaching to hold good now."

Another telling hint from St. Ignatius' "Letter to the Romans" is 4.3:

"However, I am not issuing orders to you, as though I were a Peter or a Paul. They were Apostles and I am a condemned criminal."

I argue that St. Ignatius was again alluding to the unique authority of Rome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ok' date=' but i am finding that excuse to not work for me anymore, i am actually finding multiple early church fathers saying about the same thing. Shouldnt that make ya think? It has for me...[/quote']

thats not an excuse if someone disagrees with the Bible they are wrong no contest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

Hello people, Jesus taught the Apostels, the apostels taught the early church fathers! I think they knew what they were doing, at least more than what my pastor does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
Hello people, Jesus taught the Apostels, the apostels taught the early church fathers! I think they knew what they were doing, at least more than what my pastor does.


Scripture is quite clear that even before the last of the apostles died there were many, many, false teachers. "Ancient" means nothing.


"Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."


"3 John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not."

"Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's."

"Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello people' date=' Jesus taught the Apostels, the apostels taught the early church fathers! I think they knew what they were doing, at least more than what my pastor does.[/quote']
Just because the Apostles taught the early church fathers doesn't mean that the early church fathers were correct. All of the early "church fathers" were infected with some kind of false doctrine, and most of them were seriously infected with it. The only genuine "church fathers" are the apostles and their infallible writings in the Holy Scriptures. They gave us by divine inspiration the "faith ONCE delivered to the saints. (Jude 3).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello people' date=' Jesus taught the Apostels, the apostels taught the early church fathers! I think they knew what they were doing, at least more than what my pastor does.[/quote']

WHo are the early church fathers you claim to have been studying???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In regards to Peter dying in Rome - it is interesting to note that comes from Catholic tradition, made popular by Foxe's Book of Martyrs - a Protestant who came out of Catholicism, and wrote a book about all Protestants being killed by Rome (but not necessarily because of personal faith in Christ alone for salvation). How does the pastor of literal Babylon end up in Rome before his death, when there is no proof for him being there?

1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Some Catholics love to quote this verse and say Babylon means Rome - but then they scream at you when you go to Revelation 17 and see spiritual Babylon being referred to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

I can't say if Peter ever made it to Rome or not. No proof one way or the other. Scripturally it doesn't matter...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right - Catholics just like to say it because they teach they are the successors of Peter - therefore Peter must have gone to Rome or they are all hooped!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To argue with those who trust in the traditions of men is usually vain. Most of the Catholics that come on this board will not listen and have flimsy arguements. Seriously, there is NO scripture for Peter being the pope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

We know, we were just waiting for them to get themselves banned. :cool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

why dont you just google "early church fathers" and you can read for yourself. That is what i have done, and have learned alot. I also have to give some credit to The Journey Home program.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No I want to know who's opinion you are putting above the apostles opinion(bible) I read Matthew I read Mark Iread Paul I read James and the others I have no need of any other mans interpretation of what I can read for myself, But you say you have studied these other early fathers I want to know who they are? you respect their opinions and teachings but yet you can't or wont give their names. Who are they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 39 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...