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Weaker Brethren


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I do agree. My husband feels it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict hearts. However he does preach on what God tells him to preach on. Most of the time its the "majors" but occasionally its on the "minors" like personal standards and seperation.

In allowing the Holy Spirit to work, he feels that means he preaches from the pulpit and leaves the rest up to God. So we do not create "rules" in church about tv (we would NEVER tell our staff what they were and were not allowed to have in their home as far as tv or internet) and we never tell women what they can or can't wear in their own homes, what they can listen to in their own homes, etc. However he can preach it from the pulpit, and maybe its something God wants somebody to hear so He can change their life.

I think God's man behind the pulpit has the liberty to talk about things that maybe we wouldn't necessarily want to just go around talking about to each other. However once the message is in the "hands" of the people, it is between them and God as to what is done with the message.

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I honestly thing the "weaker" brethren are those who are offended by something someone else does that they disagree with. For instance, the shortest message my pastor preached was about music. I have yet to hear more than a passing reference to dress standards. TV is rarely mentioned, and my pastors never interfere with the family. Does that mean our church is weak on standards? Absolutely not. What that means is that my pastors have matured to a point where they realize that the Holy Spirit is much more capable than they of leading the people down the right path of Righteousness. Their job is to teach the people the WORD, and since pants, TVs, rock music and specific hair standards aren't mentioned in the Bible, they try to get the people into the Word so they can then be lead by the Spirit to do what is right.

I'm not saying that preaching against those things (occasionally!!) is wrong, but I've been in churches where the pastor is so weak and ignorant that he has to mention those things every single message! If you don't have anything better to preach about, then sit down and shut up! I even remember once an older gentleman came to church who had been saved for many years and was a regular member of a Southern Baptist church in town. The man had several tattoos on his arms from his younger years, and we all know that tattoos are rather difficult to get rid of, but for some reason the pastor felt it was his duty to preach for several minutes against tattoos, as if not saying something were compromising. Now you may not agree, but that's absolutely ridiculous, not to mention incredibly immature.

My point is that those who feel themselves "mature" or "strong" in Christ, yet think they're responsible for teaching those they feel "immature" or "weaker" where they are wrong are in fact the weaker. If you think you're so much better than the Holy Spirit, then why don't you take over for Him for about a week or so?

In reality, Paul speaks of modesty and dress standards twice or three times, but about pride, gossip, service and humility dozens and dozens of times. Which seems to be more important? Yet we have thousands of Independent, Fundamental, Devil-hatin', skirt-wearin', Hell-fire preachin', Heaven-bound Baptists that are so intent on cramming standards down peoples' throats, when that's such a minute issue compared to everything else in the Bible. Like someone told me, "Major on the majors."


Where is that "Good Ranting" smiley? :roll

As for your last sentence: are you saying that God gave "minor" commands or ideas in His word that really don't matter? If anything, there are simply things in God's word that are less "major" but remain equally as important. I don't think God would have wasted any space for things he thought were unimportant in a mere 66 book compilation (considering His infinity in all areas) of the only revelation of Himself and His plans for humanity. :2cents
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Bro. Jonathan, I'm saying that God devotes more line space, and consequently more importance, to some issues, and that list certainly doesn't include TV or pants on women. For instance, bestiality is an abomination, yes, but God doesn't dwell on it. Modesty is important, but it's not rehashed over and over. The whole Bible is important, but God devotes more space to issues like gossip, fornication, belief, pride and humility than the issues that "IFBs" get hung up on. That's why I say major on the majors, or spend your time dealing with the issues that God found important enough to devote more than a few verses to.

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Bro. Jonathan' date=' I'm saying that God devotes more line space, and consequently more importance, to some issues, and that list certainly doesn't include TV or pants on women. For instance, bestiality is an abomination, yes, but God doesn't dwell on it. Modesty is important, but it's not rehashed over and over. The whole Bible is important, but God devotes more space to issues like gossip, fornication, belief, pride and humility than the issues that "IFBs" get hung up on. That's why I say major on the majors, or spend your time dealing with the issues that God found important enough to devote more than a few verses to.[/quote']

So you are saying that modest apparel and beastiality are both "minors"?
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Compared to the other things I listed, yes, apparently, since God didn't put more than a few verses about them in the Bible. I'm just going based on the Book.
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Beastiality falls into the realm of all immorality which is a "major"' date=' if you want to call it that.[/quote']

I believe you're splitting hairs just to disagree with me. My point is that most "IFBs" overemphasize the things that God gives but a casual mention. The Bible doesn't talk about pants on women, but every "IFB" pastor I've sat under does, over and over and over. I'm not saying that those issues aren't important, but what I am saying is that weak Christians browbeat others that don't have the same standards that they do. That may not be the exact situation that the Bible was talking about, but it still applies.
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The Bible has a whole bunch of sins that it mentions as abominations - so even if they are mentioned only once or twice, they are still pretty serious sins to God.

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So, what you are essentially saying (if I'm getting this correctly) is that there is more than one way in which a Christian can be weak. While one may not be weak in rules or personal standards, they may be weak in compassion or understanding. While one may be exceptionally strong in their belief system, they may be weak in the area of patience with another believer. We have also seen those that are definitely not weak in the reading of Scripture, but may be weak in the area of its application. One of my biggest problems in the area of spiritual weakness, is being strong in my belief of God's ultimate power and accepting, loving arms - and yet I still try to fit Him into my own "box" of beliefs.

Good post, MC.
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I have not read all five pages only a few posts listed on the first, so what I may say may have been posted.

This makes me think of someone who was a leader of a group at another church in the city. they were doing activities in the summer. Because I did not want to go to the jazz fest or the blues fest because of the drinking and she hit the roof when I said I did not think it was a place to go as a church event for the singles ministry. she said I must be weak in my faith if I did not want to be someplace where people were drinking. What is sad is one guy in the group was an alcoholic but she I guess did not care as long as she got to go where she wanted to go. I think that was where it was mentioned there were several things I disagreed with, Anyway I think people think that if you are worried about things influencing your mind that you are weak therefore a strong christian can go to bars, watch anything on tv, go to rock concerts because none of that will ever have any negative influence. Well I know if I go into a cheesecake shop often I will eventually break and start enjoying cheesecake so my opinion is garbage in and garbage out.
I remember as a teen I bought a billy idol tape because I liked white wedding, well I did not like the rest of the music, it was my first tape and in my mind I thought well maybe if I listen to it over and over I will start to like it because at that point it really seemed icky to me. eventually I did like it then I started buying the cure, skinny puppy, and sousie and the banshees etc.

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As an IFB I do put God in a box. Unlike emergents that don't put God in a box. Pretty much don't use the bible at all. I guess I will just keep God in a box and find out in the end if I was right or wrong. I will try to stay away from drinking and all types of wickedness. Since I am the "weaker" bretheren. I will just strive to hear well done from God not my "stronger" bretheren.

I'm against sin. I'll kick it as long as I've got a foot, and I'll fight it as long as I've got a fist. I'll butt it as long as I've got a head. I'll bite it as long as I've got a tooth. And when I'm old and fistless and footless and toothless, I'll gum it till I go home to Glory and it goes home to perdition!"- Billy Sunday

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Even small inconsistencies are dangerous. Little thorns make great blisters, little moths destroy fine garments, and little frivolities and little rogueries will rob religion of a thousand joys. O professor, too little separated from sinners, you know not what you lose by your conformity to the world. It cuts the tendons of your strength, and makes you creep where you ought to run. Then, for your own comfort's sake, and for the sake of your growth in grace, if you be a Christian, be a Christian, and be a marked and distinct one. " Spurgeon

Filth brings decay, but cleanness is the great foe of corruption." Psalms 119:9

Beware of no man more than of yourself; we carry our worst enemies within us." Spurgeon
If you rely on yourself you will always go wrong. If you think I can do this and I can do that and I am strong, pride cometh before destruction.

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As an IFB I do put God in a box. Unlike emergents that don't put God in a box. Pretty much don't use the bible at all. I guess I will just keep God in a box and find out in the end if I was right or wrong. I will try to stay away from drinking and all types of wickedness. Since I am the "weaker" bretheren. I will just strive to hear well done from God not my "stronger" bretheren.


I think you misunderstood my use of the term "box". Keeping God out of our "box" removes the limits we tend to put on Him. I was not referring to a box of morality, for I think the Bible is very clear on that subject - therefore, the limits are on us. I was only trying to say that by taking personal convictions (of an extra-Biblical origin) and attempting to make them applicable on a grand scale to all Christians does not make any Christian stronger. In fact, it more than likely makes the person weaker because it does limit their effectiveness in ministering to fellow Christians. Things that are clearly wrong and wicked by the Bible's standards have no business in anyone's life, and does definitely not qualify that person as a stronger Christian. Where it gets crazy is when people take a verse and do this: "what that verse means is ".

All that being said, while we should avoid all wickedness and the appearance of evil - we must also realize that we are a part of this present world. We are separated, yet we live in it. It is not curse or a trial - it is a blessing. We are the ambassadors of Christ in this dark world. Limiting our scope of God's goodness and grace only hurts our testimony (hence the "box" comment). We tend to be very accepting and helpful to "lost" people whose standards are greatly contradictory to ours. However, after a person is saved, we tend to expect this huge automatic change. While that may happen with some, it is definitely not the norm. We convince them that standards are the most important thing in their life, and they learn to "look the part" - but it isn't real. When we do this, we fail to make them true disciples, and we fail in the most neglected part of the great commission. How can we be so accepting of the lost person and yet provide little, if any, tolerance for our own brethren? That is not at all what Christ taught. In this way, we are weak Christians - and that is what I meant.

Okay, my long post is over. :smile
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