Is praying for your sick children enough

[Anon]

Unfortunately, sometimes sin affects children, and sometimes there's nothing that can be done about it.

Emotional abuse happens every day in families. We cannot police what is done in each home. I would venture to guess this girl was happier in a loving family with an error made than she would have been in the projects being screamed at every day and hearing rap music loud enough to burst her eardrums. Yet this happens daily. Who decides what is abuse and what is bad parenting? We have no choice but to leave that up to the parents. When the government begins to decide, then many good families will lose.

[HappyChristian]

I agree with Annie and Suzy in this. God didn't ordain government to run the family. He ordained that the man of the family would be the head. It is his (and I think a good man will come to a joint decision with his wife) decision about medical things. If we say yes to government telling the family what to do about medical, we have no recourse for anything else touching the family...government becomes the head of each family.

As far as this situation goes, we don't know 100% that treatment would help. It very likely would have, and these parents will have to live with the knowledge that they allowed their daughter to die. That, IMO, is worse punishment than any government could dish out.

When my hubby and I first got married, we knew a family whose daughter had bacterial meningitis. Anyone who knows anything about that knows that it is very often deadly. These parents put her under medical care. She was one of 5 little ones in the hospital with the same sickness. We prayed for her earnestly. She was the only one of the 5 to live. Sad scenario, and maybe you don't think it's apropros here, but my point is that medical intervention didn't help the other 4...and (as to the poll...) prayer intervention may have been the only difference in the little girl living.

There are many times people unnecessarily seek medical help, and there are many more times parents don't seek the help their children need. The reasons are numerous - no money, ignorance of the problem, religious, etc. When we allow government to begin to legislate what parents are to do with their kids, real problems develop.

As far as laws against sodomy - it is clear in scripture that sodomy is perverted and an abomination to God. In no way do laws against that perversion contradict the belief that government should not stick their nose into family business. In 99 99/100 of the time that government does that, the family and the child(ren) become the losers...thus affecting society in an unfavorable way.

[John81]

Suzy, Annie, LuAnne :thumb :amen:

[bzmomo7]

So you believe the government should stay out of peoples lives, them why do you want laws passed against abortion and homosexuality?

As for the 11 year old girl, I have no idea if she is in Heaven or not, perhaps she has already reached the age of accountability and had not accepted Jesus as Savior, or maybe she had been taught a false hope of heaven by her parents. The point is she has rights to get treatment for diabetes.

I believe firmly that in such situations our government ought to over ride the parents who does this to a family member.
Our government should never just set by and watch a father and mother let their children die without medical treatment under situations like this family did.

According to our constitution each person born in this country has the right for pursuit of happiness, that 11 year old girl had her rights taken away from her and our government did not protect her right to pursuit of happiness but set by and watch her die of something that was treatable.

There are just to many evil people that will hide behind the Bible & false teachings to say that our government should stay out of it. Evil people don't need the government protecting them while they are sacrificing their children with false teachings from the Bible.

No father and mother should be left alone by our goverment to abuse their children, children deserve to have protection.

What happened to this child was a tragedy.........a very sad mistake of judgement by her parents, and they will bear the consequences of their actions every day of their lives that they have to live without their precious daughter. According to the article, her death was not intentional, they did not set out to harm her through neglect in any way, nor have the parents been shown to be of substandard quality in the ability to provide for their other children in a manner consistent with even what Social Services would consider acceptable if they intend on giving their children back to them. I found it very difficult to read about all of this child's "rights" and how the gov't should have "stepped in". This "rights" issue is the heart of the "UN's Rights of the Child" and why the liberals want to make it national law here. I'm sorry, a child's rights are bound under the head of the family....just the way God set it up. The child does not have the same rights as an 18yr. old "adult".

[Annie]

So you would just set back and watch evil people let their children die for no good reason?

No, I wouldn't. If you can honestly tell me that you think these parents were/are evil, and that they "let" their child die (as in, did nothing for her--didn't feed her, didn't care for her, didn't give it thought, didn't pray, didn't do what they thought was best for her), then I would say they should be punished. But that's not what we have here at all. The girl was a victim of well-intentioned miseducation, not blatant neglect.

You know that those false teachers are not praying to God the Father of Jesus Christ. don't you?

These people are not false teachers. They have been affected by false teaching. There is a difference.

[5dumplings@home]

If a child's parents, by their religious beliefs, believes in only praying for their sick children, do you think its proper for the government to intervene and take them to a doctor?

If no, please give the reason why you say no and that our goverment should not have that authority.

The case I believe you are referring to is a test case, indeed. However, the number of children in this church that have died due to medically treatable conditions is high. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343148,00.html

God will give parents wisdom as to treatment, but only if we actively seek him. That baby was treatable. The pressure was probably coming from within the church...if they took that baby to the doctor, they would have been exhibiting a lack of faith. Well, all that "faith" did no good since God himself approves of doctors. Luke, the beloved physician...right?

I'm totally undecided on this, but based upon the facts, the church is as culpable as the parents are.

[JerryNumbers]

Just because a person prays for their children does not make them wonderful people. Those who believe in, accept false teachings, and teach false teaching are evil people.

But what amazes me it that some of you would set back and let helpless children be abused, neglected, it really speaks highly of you. That is the only way I know to say it, for I would think people who believe in Jesus Christ would have so much compassion for innocent children who are abused and neglected, but I see some of you do not. that is you would set back on your hands all day long and let it happen over and over again while not doing one thing about it.

I see that your scared that if the government goes into homes and rescues children from death & or abuse that you will lose some of your rights.

I would gladly give up all of my rights in order to save one child from abusive parents and parents who with hold medical treatment from their children till they die.

If I give up some of my rights and it saves the life of one child, them it has been worthwhile to lose some of my rights. Besides that there is not a one of us who uses our religious freedoms to the advantage that we ought to, we all fall way short of the glory of God.

To set back and watch and do nothing while watching innocent children suffer at the hands of their evil parents does not ever fit the golden rule which the Lamb of God who had so much compassion for us that He gave His life that we might be saved from our sins gave us to live by.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

I hope and pray that none of you ever get in a situation where you rightly need someones help, yet all they do is set back and watch saying, lets not get involved, if we do we might lose some of our rights, lets just let what ever may happen happen, even if they're killed all the while thinking its so sad that they're abused so bad and just may die from the abuse, but I'm a Christian, I should not get involved helping helpless innocent people.

[John81]

No one has said what you say Jerry.

The government routinely steals children from families, destroys families and wrecks lives in the name of "protecting the children". The government can't be trusted anymore than can unwise parents.

Biblically and historically, children are the responsibility of the parents. If there is a need then extended family should step in. If there is further need the church or perhaps in rare cases the local community should offer help.

The federal government is the last ones who should be involved in family matters.

[Colin Stolzer]

Just because a person prays for their children does not make them wonderful people. Those who believe in, accept false teachings, and teach false teaching are evil people.

But what amazes me it that some of you would set back and let helpless children be abused, neglected, it really speaks highly of you. That is the only way I know to say it, for I would think people who believe in Jesus Christ would have so much compassion for innocent children who are abused and neglected, but I see some of you do not. that is you would set back on your hands all day long and let it happen over and over again while not doing one thing about it.

I see that your scared that if the government goes into homes and rescues children from death & or abuse that you will lose some of your rights.

I would gladly give up all of my rights in order to save one child from abusive parents and parents who with hold medical treatment from their children till they die.

If I give up some of my rights and it saves the life of one child, them it has been worthwhile to lose some of my rights. Besides that there is not a one of us who uses our religious freedoms to the advantage that we ought to, we all fall way short of the glory of God.

To set back and watch and do nothing while watching innocent children suffer at the hands of their evil parents does not ever fit the golden rule which the Lamb of God who had so much compassion for us that He gave His life that we might be saved from our sins gave us to live by.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

I hope and pray that none of you ever get in a situation where you rightly need someones help, yet all they do is set back and watch saying, lets not get involved, if we do we might lose some of our rights, lets just let what ever may happen happen, even if they're killed all the while thinking its so sad that they're abused so bad and just may die from the abuse, but I'm a Christian, I should not get involved helping helpless innocent people.

Jerry80871852

I'm glad you can be so high and mighty with your judgements, now let me tell you about the flip side of that coin you are set on. My older brother had his children removed from his home, because of allegations of abuse from a school teacher. The sheriff and social services showed up one afternoon and for lack of a better word kidnapped my brothers kids and hauled them off to a foster family on nothing more than one womans accusations. During the several months of court proceedings and hearings and limited supervised visitation, one of the social workers tells my brothers wife that if she divorces him she will have a much better chance of getting her kids back. So geuss what she does, she packs up and leaves and files for divorce thinking this will get her kids back. My brother who has never done anything to his kids, gets a lawyer at several hundred dollars an hour to fight Social Services, who after two months still had not charged him with anything (pending Investigation), but they had decided it was in the best interest of his kids to put them on Ritulin (sp?)and other meds for ADD, without proper testing to see if they even needed any, one state doctors visit and here's some drugs for the kiddies. After several more months and a divorce and about $10,000 worth of lawyers fee's. The state gives the kids back to my brothers now ex-wife and tells my brother the allegations were unfounded the teacher filed a false report, but we're not going to do anything about that, you can sue her if you want but you'll probably loose, and have a nice life. The foster parents did a nice one and overdosed one of my nephews on the various medications they had him on, he now has kidney problems for the rest of his life, and both of them were set back a year in school because of all the time they missed due to the state's actions. And I can already see some of the emotional effects that this episode in their lives is going to have on them and probably their families. It's good to know though that the Gov't was looking out for the well being of my nephews who were never in any danger from my brother or his wife.

C

[Annie]

Just because a person prays for their children does not make them wonderful people. Those who believe in' date=' [b']accept false teachings, and teach false teaching are evil people.

Can you support this statement from Scripture? I don't recall ever calling these people "wonderful," but I don't think they are wicked, either. They are unfortunately misled by their spiritual leaders.

But what amazes me it that some of you would set back and let helpless children be abused, neglected, it really speaks highly of you. That is the only way I know to say it, for I would think people who believe in Jesus Christ would have so much compassion for innocent children who are abused and neglected, but I see some of you do not. that is you would set back on your hands all day long and let it happen over and over again while not doing one thing about it.

Jerry, with due respect, what have you done in the last month for "innocent children who are abused and neglected?" This case is out of our hands; we couldn't do anything substantial about it even if we wanted to. Can you not see the difference between people who verbally, physically, and/or sexually abuse their children every day, and these people who, though mistaken, tried their best for their child? Is there a difference between drug-addicted parents who leave their children alone all day to fend for themselves and parents who try to care for their children as best as they know how?

To set back and watch and do nothing while watching innocent children suffer at the hands of their evil parents does not ever fit the golden rule which the Lamb of God who had so much compassion for us that He gave His life that we might be saved from our sins gave us to live by.

Again I ask, what have you done to rescue children from their evil parents?

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

[JerryNumbers]

We have the same problem you speak of in our courts concerning those who are on death row, yet the majority of Baptist stand strong for capital punishment.

But yet when it comes down to helping helpless children who have no choice who their parents are you would set back watching and letting them die at the hands of evil parents.

We don't have a perfect government, and our government never said it was perfect. But if we did not have a government to enforce the laws it would not be safe for you to exit your houses.

But you don't want our government to have the power to take helpless children away from evil parents.

No, your problem is your scared you will lose some of your precious rights and would rather hold on to them than save a few helpless children who happened to be born into the family of evil parents.

When my sister was about 7 years of age when our mother brother, and sister died in a house fire, she was sent to live with a local family who was evil and abusive, thanks to a wonderful school teacher who cared and notified the police she in an abusive situation was taken out from that abusive family by the police.

I hate to think what would have happened to my sister if any of you had been in charge for you would have said, "Oh no we can't take that little abused girl from that family," and would left her in it and she would have suffered even more abuse from evil people while you set on your hands and did nothing but enjoyed your merry life.

I thank God there were people around her who cared enough to take her from that abuse, I can see my sister was very fortunate not to have people who believe like y'all do, for if they had been she would probably have been dead within a very few short years and I woudl have never seen her again.

[rancher824]

Let me put forth a question. To what extent do you believe the govt should be allowed to make such decisions? Here is where I am coming from. My mother 4 years ago had a stroke. We were told she was brain dead. They asked about organ donation. I do not believe in organ donations. We said absolutly not. Today, though not able to completely care for herself, she plays the piano at our church. She was not dead. If we had okayd the organ donation, she would be. Now to my point. If the govt says when we can and cannot take our children to the doctor, will they then decide we have to accept an organ that we believe a person was murdered for? Will they decide that the child who is "brain dead" must be murdered to save some other childs life?? All these come to my mind when I think about this. I feel very sorry for the little girl. As long as we are in this sinful world there is no sure fix that gets rid of all problems.

[Anon]

CowboyPreacher what an awful, awful story. Family destruction at the hands of the government and some anonymous tip (those make me MAD).

Jerry# with all due respect you don't realize what you are advocating. As someone posted, millions of children are being abused daily, yet the family in question was even proven to NOT be abusive according to social services themselves! Yet they took the kids! How warped is that!

Someone just told me off list that they had a relative who developed diabetes as a child VERY quickly, and nearly died as the drs tried to figure out what was wrong. It can happen.

[HappyChristian]

Parents who believe they are acting in the best interests of their children are not evil - even if they make heartbreaking mistakes. Drug addicts and alcoholics are not acting in the best interestes of their children - they act for themselves. There is a major difference between the parents of this little girl and truly evil parents.

Jerry8 - I am glad that your sister was taken out of that home. But one big difference - it was not her parents who were abusing her. It is a fine line that we walk in this area. The problem is that with what you are advocating, that the government has the right to step in and order medical care, it will not stop there. It will have the same effect that allowing Social Services to take a child away has had. Many, many children are taken away on a whim of a social worker, unjustly. That is a horrible, life-scarring thing to happen - to both the child and the family. A book that was written back in 1986 that has some interesting facts in it is The Child Abuse Industry by Mary Pride. http://www.amazon.com/Child-Abuse-Indus ... 0891074015 The book was written over 20 years ago, but things have not gotten any better. I would highly recommend this book to everyone. It is a real eye-opener.

CowboyPreacher - I am so sorry that happened to your brother's kids. God is merciful, and He can help them. I know you know this, but I have sen God heal people who have been in that type of situation.

Anyone can develop any illness and die quickly...whether there is intervention or not.

[Psalms18_28]

1 Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Doctors recieved gift of intelligent from God...

Even the bible mention physicians in a good light. Luke is one of them. Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
<---- just like deaf and blind people, Physician are meant to be around for His Glory.
The only thing is that they should not be treated like a god, and faith and physican goes hand to hand. You can't leave one out without the other.. You can't just pray and refuse help. If you are hungary, you can't just treat God like a magic genie and food will pop out right there in front of you. You have to go ask for help. (Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:)

Jerry8, They weren't her real parents.. It think anyone who did not give birth to a child should be watched carefully as they don't have the same type of bonding as biological mothers who carried their child for 9 months and watch their child come into this world. yes, some can be abusive and should have their child taken away, but others, well, we can't take the kids away because the bad judgment of the mother if they are loved and fed. But the judge should give them a warning that either they take their kids for a check up for future diabete (as it can be genetic) or they will be taken away for neglect. No kids really like to see that their biological mother as bad anyhow. It makes them feel they are bad too because they came from them. People who think good thinks of their parents help kids say positive about themselves.. even if the parents need help (abusive, neglect, etc.) BTW, I am sorry your sister had to go through that.