Proverbs 31:6?

[Marcus2Israel]

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

What does this verse mean? Surely it can't mean drinking is ok, because earlier verses condemn it.

[kevinmiller]

Could be referring to its medicinal purposes. Just a thought.

[Kenny5682]

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

What does this verse mean? Surely it can't mean drinking is ok, because earlier verses condemn it.

My understanding is that casual drinking is okay. The only verse that comes to my mind that would lead me to believe otherwise is the proverb that says not to look on it when it's red or something. I don't drink myself, but I'm careful not to condemn a brother that drinks a glass of wine during dinner or something similar.

There's also the issue of whether or not it's fermented or not as well.

[kevinmiller]

I remember one person making the point that grape juice would have had to have some fermentation in it because of the lack of refrigeration in a desert-like climate. That would mean that the Biblical references to wine, unless it was new wine, would have had some fermentation in it. Here's an interesting article on the subject: http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/wine.htm
I haven't made a complete conclusion about the article, but it brings up some very interesting points.

[Marcus2Israel]

Well if it isn't fermented it raises the question, how can we tell if the Bible is referring to fermented or unfermented wine if its the same word in English and Hebrew. The Hebrew word here for wine is:

H3196
???
yayin
yah'-yin
From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].

[Guest Guest]

I believe in context it is sarcasm. It says "Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish" which I believe may well be speaking of morally "perishing". If this verse is not sarcasm it would literally be encouraging people to get drunk if they are unhappy since the next verse says: "Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more." We know for sure from other scripture that getting drunk is wrong.
.

[kevinmiller]

Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

I can see how that could be talking about it being used by those who are on a different plane than a Christian or "king." Leave strong drink for those who are not "kingly." Interesting thought. The warning against wine is typically against that of "strong drink" or strong wine. If the article above is accurate, they would've mixed it with water at a 8:1 ratio, which would make it wine, but not strong drink, and ok to drink since it would be difficult to get drunk on in moderation.

[Guest Guest]

If somene has had enough to "remember his misery no more" he is drunk. Scripture is very clear that being drunk is wrong.

[kevinmiller]

If somene has had enough to "remember his misery no more" he is drunk. Scripture is very clear that being drunk is wrong.

Did someone disagree? :huh:

[Guest Guest]

I don't know, maybe not, I thought you were saying "strong drink" was wrong but regular "wine" was not. Maybe I just read it wrong. :Green

[Psalms18_28]

If somene has had enough to "remember his misery no more" he is drunk. Scripture is very clear that being drunk is wrong.

yep, drunks like to drown their sorrows in alcohol.

[kevinmiller]

I don't know' date=' maybe not, I thought you were saying "strong drink" was wrong but regular "wine" was not. Maybe I just read it wrong. :Green[/quote']
I was, more or less, agreeing with your point. I'm not totally sure about it, but it's an interesting thought. Yes, strong drink is totally off the table. Wine, such as was used in the Bible by Christians is not. And it makes sense if it was 8 to 1 wine and used for purification. Wine, in and of itself, is not a sinful substance. It is the abuse of it that makes it wrong. For example, it can be used medicinally or for purification. The same Greek word was used multiple times and even Jesus drank the wine mixture(if it was indeed a mixture as is supposed). I had bought into the argument for a long time that it was just grape juice, but the Bible does not indicate in the slightest that it was unfermented grape juice. How would they have kept it fresh? Unless, of course, it was new wine. It also does not mesh with not being drunk with wine because it's excess. I really don't see any evidence, in the Greek word that was used for wine, that it was simply grape juice.

[deputydog530]

The context of Chapter 31, the strong warning for those in leadership is not to have any alcohol.

Vs. 6 is refering to medical use. It was also customary of the Jews to give strong drink to those due to be executed to ease them. (Matthew Henry)

Today we have medications far more effective and not intoxicating to deal with medical issues. Some for pain are intoxicating.

Luke was a physician so he would have probably prescribed meds (Something I am going to look into, didnt think of it before)

However, to examine if we should drink any or not all verses must be looked at. Here are a few.

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (very clear statement, stay a way from it)

Pro 23:20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: (warning not to be around those that drink strong drink)
Pro 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags. (consequences of drinking strong drink)


Pro 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (more consequences)
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pro 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. (more consequences. Likened to poison snakes)
Pro 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. (This verse speaks for itself)
Pro 23:34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
Pro 23:35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Isa 56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
Isa 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
Isa 56:12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.


The Lord warned against strong drink because believers were partaking in it. Why, because they were sinners. Sin is sin and drinking was and is a blight on Christianity. It is easily abused and brings nothing but negative consequences. I was an acoholic when I got saved at age 24. I say was because the Lord took my very strong desire to drink alcohol (and I drank every day) from me. I have no desire for it. The Lord supernaturally removed that desire from me. Praise God.

But overall the scripture is clear that though used medically in a limited way, it is not for believers to have. It brings nothing but problems. These verses spell that out.

As for the ( I only drink 1 glass of wine with dinner) is a justification. Alcohol alters your mind, even one glass. I have studied the issue professionally as a Deputy Sheriff and know this is fact.

It has always been hard to witness to my co-workers in the past when I ended up arresting one of the bretheren. I have arrested many Christians over the years for things involving strong drink. That is why the Lord makes it clear it is not for us. It ruins good people and damages the cause of Christ.

By the way, we say it is only not for kings, you are royalty if you a child of God, so its not for you.

I was told to read a book called Bible Wines by William Patton. I have not read it but plan to check it out. It has explainations on how wine was preserved for long periods of time so it would not ferment.

anyway, Hope this helps.

God Bless

[Psalms18_28]

speaking of leadership:


For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Titus 1:7

Henry:
Not given to wine; thee is no greater reproach on a minister than to be a wine-bibber, one who loves it, and gives himself undue liberty this way who continues at the wine or strong drink till it inflames him. Seasonable and moderate use of this, as of the other good creatures of God, is not unlawful. Use a little wine for thy stomach's sake, and thine often infirmities, said Paul to Timothy, 1Ti_5:23. But excess therein is shameful in all, especially in a minister. Wine takes away the heart, turns the man into a brute: here most proper is that exhortation of the apostle (Eph_5:18), Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit. Here is no exceeding, but in the former too easily there may: take heed therefore of going too near the brink.

Barnes:

1Ti 3:3 -
Not given to wine - Margin, ?Not ready to quarrel and offer wrong, as one in wine.? The Greek word (???????? paroinos) occurs in the New Testament only here and in Tit_1:7. It means, properly, ?by wine;? i. e., spoken of what takes place ?by? or ?over? wine, as revelry, drinking songs, etc. Then it denotes, as it does here, one who sits ?by? wine; that is, who is in the habit of drinking it. It cannot be inferred, from the use of the word here, that wine was absolutely and entirely prohibited; for the word does not properly express that idea. It means that one who is in the habit of drinking wine, or who is accustomed to sit with those who indulge in it, should not be admitted to the ministry. The way in which the apostle mentions the subject here would lead us fairly to suppose that he did not mean to commend its use in any sense; that he regarded its use as dangerous, and that he would wish the ministers of religion to avoid it altogether. In regard to its use at all, except at the communion or as a medicine, it may be remarked, that a minister will do no injury to himself or others by letting it entirely alone; he may do injury by indulging in it. No man is under any ?obligation? of courtesy or Christian duty to use it; thousands of ministers of the gospel have brought ruin on themselves, and disgrace on the ministry, by its use; compare Mat_11:9 note, and 1Ti_5:23 note.

[deputydog530]

Psalms18_28

It cannot be inferred, from the use of the word here, that wine was absolutely and entirely prohibited; for the word does not properly express that idea.

Hey Pslams :smile

I agree with you in all but this one point. I will post a few things I have found in study and expierence about this issue. Alcohol is habit forming. Most people drink like they are eating Lays potato chips. "They can't just have one"

Then we have to define drunkeness.
Drunken = 1. Intoxicated; inebriated with strong liquor.

2. Given to drunkenness; as a drunken butler.

3. Saturated with liquor or moisture; drenched.

Let the earth be drunken with our blood.

4. Proceeding from intoxication; done in a state of drunkenness; as a drunken quarrel. (Websters 1828)

So when is a person intoxicated, drunk, or inebriated.

I will not go into the stacks of medical research I have read in my career but basically, intoxication starts with the first drink.
Alcohol enters the blood stream and goes directly to the brain. Alcohol is a mind altering drug.

Pet scans taken in recent years shows that drinkers have a decreased brain function. This is not drunks, this is social drinkers and those that dont drink daily. What is the alcohol in the drink? If you see what medical research says it is poison.

Therefore fermented, or leavened wine contains poison. If alcohol was taken from its drink, made pure and drank, a small amount maybe a teaspoon full would kill you.

So if drinking is ok for average Christians they must ignore 1Thess 5:21-23 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Look at the evil mentioned in the verses in relation of alcohol in my previous post.

Note a few things in this passage. "Abstain from ALL appearance of evil" We are not to even be around it. We are to be set apart wholly. And all Christians are to be blameless, not just Bishops and Deacons.

So, if it is ok for Christians to have that drink, where should they have it? Is a Bar ok? Or do they need to drink it in thier homes so they are not seen.

Then there is that message to our children that it is ok. Im sure you see where im going....

S then we return to the scriptures.

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Cant argue with this verse "Wine is a mocker" direct statement here. The whoesoever is decieved by it is anyone who partakes of it. why because 9 out of 10 will not only drink one glass (which starts the intoxication process.)

Another question. Is "getting buzzed" being drunk? Some Christians say no, some say yes.

Also most states have a drinking intoxicaton level of .08 % blood alcohol by volume. This is about 2 drinks for the average person. I have arrested many who were under .08 but were still intoxicated. These levels were made law by the states base on medical evidence of the affect alcohol has on the person.

For instance in Oregon the level of intoxication is .08 OR if the person shows signs of intoxicants. In otherwords, a person can be found guilty of drunk driving if they register a .01 but show signs of physical intoxication. I have seen that with my own eyes.

When I drank before I was saved, (and I drank a lot and had a tolorance built up) before I finished my first beer, I could feel the affects. I am a big guy and could hold a lot. My point is intoxication starts at the first drink.

When looking at all scripture on the issue as well as others dealing with how we are to live a believers for Christ I can only come to the conclusion that Alcohol is not for any Christian. Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I just wanted to leave some information for thought. I think we agree other than that one issue above. :smile

God Bless you :lol