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Okay, so you have the Church of God, which is at Corinth. That's two separate clauses. You have the Church of God and then it gives further description of it. It's the Church of God that is at Corinth.

Surely you're not saying that Christ gave himself for the church at Ephesus? Wow, I don't even know how you can construe it that way. This is a general principal, not an exclusive one. Therefore, it makes no sense to be exclusive in Christ's atonement, which is not exclusive(unless you happen to be a five-pointer Calvinist). The principal is that we should love our wives as Christ loved THE church and gave himself for THE church. Again, this is a general principal.

Okay, there are two options for 1 Timothy 3:15. You say it's singular, that is true. However, it cannot possibly refer to the church building(which seems to be what you're wanting to imply) because God makes it abundantly clear that He does not dwell in temples made by hands. Therefore, it must refer to one of two things- either to each of us individually as the house and temple of the Holy Spirit, or to the household and family(the Body) of God. Either way, this attests to the Church Body universal.
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In the NT' date=' pastors, elders and bishops (overseers) are the same office in the church. The Bible does not state they are the only ones to teach, but that they are responsible to teach and lead the congregation.[/quote']
Yes, they are responsible for teaching and discipleship. The Bible refers to elders(plural) many times throughout the various books in the NT. The Bible does not say, however, that one man is to be in total control of a local congregation and the sole teacher of all the church members. He is supposed to be "apt to teach" which is also what is commanded of the "servants of God," in general.
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The church is exists for 3 reasons.

1) To exalt God.
2) To edify Believer's
3) To Evangelize the lost

I don't see that in your model Kevin.

The church is a universal body of believers under the headship of Christ that meets in a local, autonomous gathering that has two officers as given in the Bible. We've effectively named them Pastor and deacons. Elders, Bishops, etc. all describe these offices. As far as church politics go, there should be close council of godly men who are pastors and deacons or elders or what ever you may want to call them. It's up to the church itself to decide the nuts and bolts of the authority of the Pastor and the deacons outside of any clear biblical teaching of such. Too much authority of either the Pastor or the deacons leads to a bad balance. I do believe that the pastor has the greater biblical responsibility(Pastoral Authority) , but I don't believe in "Pastoral Rule", because when the bible speaks about "them that have rule over you" (in Hebrews 13) is more than just the pastor, but it's all religious teachers that they have... and that rule is giving through the authority of the church. And really the biggest impact a pastor can have is his authority over those teachers/deacons/helpers in the church. I think that many times it's pride that causes a clash between deacons and their pastor... on one side or the other.


Too many people have been hurt by the "Bless God, I'm the Pastor and we're going to do this." mentality that was prevalent (and still is in some churches/colleges).

1 Peter 5:1-4 1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


Some interesting thoughts on the "church" as we move into a new age of our world...

The church needs to be physical... meaning physical meetings must take place. How else does the church administer The Lord's Supper and Church Discipline. The idea of declaring someone out of fellowship with the church and separating from such is grounded in the physical removal of our presence from them.

The church needs to be more than "two or more are gathered in my name". We can't hold to proper discipline or investigating of sin without at least 2 people for witnesses, an accuser, the elders to bring it before, etc. Yes, these are legitimate concerns of the church as illustrated in the new testament. It falls under the "Edification" of church members because the purpose is not inquisition but the purpose is restoration.

The church doesn't mean that the pastor is the head of every meeting and that is what creates "church" or not. If this is the case, ladies meetings aren't church meetings, youth meetings/events aren't church meetings, etc. A "church" meeting is any meeting that is operating under the authority of the local church. It can be inclusive to certain ages/members, etc or exclusive to such, it can be at tea in someone's home, or in an airport with a group leaving for the mission field... they are all under the authority of their local church and as such are THE CHURCH.

We need to move away from identifying "CHURCH" as what happens between four walls and move it to what happens where our people live/move/work and interact.

But church is more than just getting together occasionally and fellowshipping.

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I noticed the bible mention alot about high priest or chief priest' date=' but i have to go over them first.[/quote']
The chief priest was the go between of God and the congregation, that model was a symbol or a type of Christ. Almost the whole book of Hebrews addresses this and shows the superiority of Christ as our high priest.

Unfortunately, many pastors take the role of the "high priest" rather than the undershepherd.

Christ is our High Priest, better than the Aaronic Priesthood, of the Priesthood of Melchizidek.
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The way I see it, Most IFB run it church like the government. You have the people voting the president. But the president does not really rule over U.S. Nor the congress, and the people does not rule over the president or the congress either.. Everyone is in it together, but setting it in a orderly way.

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The church is exists for 3 reasons.

1) To exalt God.
2) To edify Believer's
3) To Evangelize the lost

I don't see that in your model Kevin.

The church is a universal body of believers under the headship of Christ that meets in a local, autonomous gathering that has two officers as given in the Bible. We've effectively named them Pastor and deacons. Elders, Bishops, etc. all describe these offices. As far as church politics go, there should be close council of godly men who are pastors and deacons or elders or what ever you may want to call them. It's up to the church itself to decide the nuts and bolts of the authority of the Pastor and the deacons outside of any clear biblical teaching of such. Too much authority of either the Pastor or the deacons leads to a bad balance. I do believe that the pastor has the greater biblical responsibility(Pastoral Authority) , but I don't believe in "Pastoral Rule", because when the bible speaks about "them that have rule over you" (in Hebrews 13) is more than just the pastor, but it's all religious teachers that they have... and that rule is giving through the authority of the church. And really the biggest impact a pastor can have is his authority over those teachers/deacons/helpers in the church. I think that many times it's pride that causes a clash between deacons and their pastor... on one side or the other.


Too many people have been hurt by the "Bless God, I'm the Pastor and we're going to do this." mentality that was prevalent (and still is in some churches/colleges).

1 Peter 5:1-4 1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


Some interesting thoughts on the "church" as we move into a new age of our world...

The church needs to be physical... meaning physical meetings must take place. How else does the church administer The Lord's Supper and Church Discipline. The idea of declaring someone out of fellowship with the church and separating from such is grounded in the physical removal of our presence from them.

The church needs to be more than "two or more are gathered in my name". We can't hold to proper discipline or investigating of sin without at least 2 people for witnesses, an accuser, the elders to bring it before, etc. Yes, these are legitimate concerns of the church as illustrated in the new testament. It falls under the "Edification" of church members because the purpose is not inquisition but the purpose is restoration.

The church doesn't mean that the pastor is the head of every meeting and that is what creates "church" or not. If this is the case, ladies meetings aren't church meetings, youth meetings/events aren't church meetings, etc. A "church" meeting is any meeting that is operating under the authority of the local church. It can be inclusive to certain ages/members, etc or exclusive to such, it can be at tea in someone's home, or in an airport with a group leaving for the mission field... they are all under the authority of their local church and as such are THE CHURCH.

We need to move away from identifying "CHURCH" as what happens between four walls and move it to what happens where our people live/move/work and interact.

But church is more than just getting together occasionally and fellowshipping.


:amen: :goodpost:
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1) To exalt God.
2) To edify Believer's
3) To Evangelize the lost

I don't see that in your model Kevin.

Providing that those are indeed the three functions of the church, mine does contain that. I never really gave a detailed plan, anyway. But I believe that exalting God, edifying believers(I particularly emphasized that) and evangelizing is all a part of what the church does.

I can understand the reasoning in your first paragraph and it seems reasonable. I'm not sure if there should be one sole leader or not, Biblically, I mean. But it sounds good on the surface.

The church needs to be physical... meaning physical meetings must take place. How else does the church administer The Lord's Supper and Church Discipline. The idea of declaring someone out of fellowship with the church and separating from such is grounded in the physical removal of our presence from them.

The local church is physical, I would definitely agree with that. The universal Church, however, is made up of all Christians and churches. The universal Church and the universal Body is one and the same.

The church doesn't mean that the pastor is the head of every meeting and that is what creates "church" or not. If this is the case, ladies meetings aren't church meetings, youth meetings/events aren't church meetings, etc. A "church" meeting is any meeting that is operating under the authority of the local church. It can be inclusive to certain ages/members, etc or exclusive to such, it can be at tea in someone's home, or in an airport with a group leaving for the mission field... they are all under the authority of their local church and as such are THE CHURCH.

I'm not sure what you mean by "under the authority of the local church." Every activity that we are a part of as Christians is a church activity as we are members of Christ's Church regardless of whether it is local-church-sanctioned.
We need to move away from identifying "CHURCH" as what happens between four walls and move it to what happens where our people live/move/work and interact.

Totally agree. :thumb
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I'm not sure what you mean by "under the authority of the local church." Every activity that we are a part of as Christians is a church activity as we are members of Christ's Church regardless of whether it is local-church-sanctioned.


This is the statement with which I most vehemently disagree.
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This is the statement with which I most vehemently disagree.


Seems he dislikes any authority.

And completely disagrees with the structure of the local church.

But all actuality, he has always disagree with Baptist teachings. He say he agrees with Bible teaching, but we know that solid Baptist teaching is nothing but Bible teaching.

If I remember right, sometime back he mentioned that he was trying to get his parents to move from the Baptist Church they're attending to some church of which did not have the name Baptist on it. Seems it might have been some type of Bible Church.

So perhaps he is rebelling against his parents and the church they attend.
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Often' date=' "Universal Church" advocates dislike pastoral authority or indeed, any type of church authority at all.[/quote']
It's possible that they do this to give them a "cloak" for homechurch-ing. We have that a lot in our area. Too many people have been listening to Mike and Debbie Pearl's tapes re. homechurch.

Realizing that the family is God's invention to be the basic unit in society, and the Local church to be His instrument to reach those basic units, we can see why Satan would attack both. He will do all that he can to dishonor and destroy the Image of God.
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