My church does tithing, but I have encountered many christians saying it is an old testament, Levitical priesthood thing,  and not for today.

My response to them is the NT church needs to cover its expenses, and that is through the congregation paying for some,  or all of it.  So why would the amount given be different to 10 percent that was what the levites did?

This isn't really showing the Biblical case for tithing now though.  What is your understanding of tithing for now?

 

10 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

My church does tithing, but I have encountered many christians saying it is an old testament, Levitical priesthood thing,  and not for today.

My response to them is the NT church needs to cover its expenses, and that is through the congregation paying for some,  or all of it.  So why would the amount given be different to 10 percent that was what the levites did?

This isn't really showing the Biblical case for tithing now though.  What is your understanding of tithing for now?

 

Give with a cheerful heart, this means Under or Over 10 percent. Tithing Saves, nobody. Giving more than others does not guarantee more blessings to you. Have a great day ☀️

The principle of tithing is taught throughout the Bible, Old and New testaments alike. Many Christians nowadays try to do away with this principle with statements like "give cheerfully," or "that was for the Jews in the Old Testament."  The Bible speaks about people giving sacrificially, ie, the widow who gave two mites, being all she had. The book of Acts tells of Christians selling possessions and giving ALL the proceeds to the church. I'll continue to support the position of tithing. 

Whoever told you that ancient tithing is an OT practice defined by the Law of Moses, that is correct. Those who point to it being a principle established by Abraham, that is utterly false because what Abraham did has nothing to do with modern claims for similarity or principle.

Modern "tithing," then, is based upon nothing more than human tradition and institutional dogmas. Don't get me wrong, professing believers have a right to band together under some creed and form institutional business organizations, hire leadership hirelings within that organization of their choosing, and practice their religious gatherings in whatever way they so choose. Dare they try to erect that house of cards upon the foundations of the Bible, and it collapses under its own weight, given that church organizations stand or fall on the basis of money alone. Pull the money out from under any one of them, and they collapse into a heap.

Now, when considering the Law of the tithe, what most false teaching preachers never tell their blind followers is that the Law never required wage earners to hand over one red cent of their wages to the Levites...not even those wage earners working the fields to harvest the crop from which a tithe was set apart from. Bible Cemeteries know that revealing that truth to their ignorant students who populate pulpits all around the world would cause some serious decline in institutional "giving" from the pockets of the blind masses. The leadership they train up to misrepresent the truth by way of omission or outright false teaching, or combinations of both, remain the dupes of religious education that has long since departed from the integrity of what the scriptures actually say.

As for Abraham allegedly being the source of some contrived "principle," that too is a bold-faced lie of manipulation and slight-of-hand parlor tricks, perpetrated upon the unsuspecting masses who almost never crack their Bibles open to do a systematic study on anything apart from what they are spoon-fed in their milk-toast and wet-noodle Bible studies.

Abraham's vast wealth remained in northern Canaan when he went on that mission of war to retrieve his nephew Lot. Nobody in their right mind would have taken all their herds, flocks, tents, servants and their families, water, food and all the other things of their wealth on a mission of war. He would never have caught up with those kings who themselves were hauling away the wealth of those cities they had raided and stolen from, including captives.

So, if you ever go on a mission of war and win, recapture booty, and meet up with Melchizedek in the desert when intentionally returning the stolen property to the rightful owners, then perhaps you can lay claim to some elusive principle, but until then one remains a dupe to the foolishness of charlatans who intentionally mislead others into lining the pockets of the leadership with a living they don't want to have to go out and earn like all the rest of us when they can so easily shear sheeple each week of their fast buck.

Please don't assume I'm bitter or hateful toward institutionalized religion. I've already stated my agreement with the freedoms we all have in this life to form whatever associations we so choose. My main beef is with the idea that it's all biblical, when in fact it's man-made.

Protestants most generally have no idea just how Roman Catholic they really are in the context of their institutional leanings. I despise the intellectual dishonesties that continue to this day under the guise of harmless niceties where people glean their warm fuzzies, thinking they are blessed. The lack of spiritual maturity among the masses who attend those things on a regular basis, some even for 70 years of their lives, and yet have so little knowledge of the scriptures...it's tragic.

We need more spiritual giants walking this earth, but the paradigm of the masses sitting as an audience, claiming they are enjoying fellowship with the backs of each other's heads, that's a skill I never could master, nor was I willing to fool myself any longer within that framework. Thus my departure from it to find where the Lord would lead.

The so-called "tithe to the church" dogma remains a staple of paying one's dues as they would the Elk or Moose Lodge. They too need the influx of money for their sustenance. When it comes to the funds handed over to churchianity, some may be applied toward missions and food for the down-and-out, which keeps the audience feeling good about their "tithe," the majority of which is lavished right back upon themselves by way of direct benefit from the institution they support through the luxurious use of the over-priced buildings, heating and air conditioning, carpets, stained glass windows, chandeliers (if they have those), paved parking lots, etc.

Those that are more modest and don't have all the fancy trimmings, they too will feel good about their little organization, basking in the light of the contrived modesty they see themselves as possessing, never giving a thought to the fact that reaping an iota of benefit from one's own giving...that's not giving at all, but, hey, living a lie is easier and more enjoyable compared to living consistently and with absolute truth in all things. No wonder scripture teaches us that all men are liars, and God is true...

This will likely strike deep at the love most have for organized religion, even to the point to assaulting this post with their harangue of negativity and whatever other labels some may cast at this, all to keep them felling good about living the lie. The day is fast approaching where the public institutions with buildings and real estate, they will be forced to either buckle to the social, secular gospel, or go down in flames and lose it all.

This world is becoming an increasingly hostile place for true believers. Most are not prepared to walk without the institutional crutches and wheel chairs that keep them moving along, never walking on their own two feet to find out what they're really made of by way of spiritual stature. The usual tendency to continue offering up the usual fare of lip-service professions of being followers of Christ Jesus...which one? There are so many.

That's ok. Stay where you are without ever daring to turn a critical eye to the realities around us, never daring to do as Paul of Tarsus commanded, which is to "Prove all things." The world will continue to appear benevolent while killing the unborn under the guise of "rights" that the institutional system consistently has failed to fight collectively, and all the other failures to rightfully influence the culture in the direction of honoring and glorifying Christ Jesus with the honor He so deserves.

The ethic of the hippies of the 60's is still at play...make love, not war...

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The modern West where we live today was not placed in view of the ancient hearers of Christ's words when that was spoken, even though the Lord sees it all from beginning to end.

Jr

A pastor I know keeps a box in the sanctuary by the entrance. No preaching about robbing God or giving 10% plus offerings above that percentage. No guilt tripping or bringing in any obese guest speakers to bang the pulpit about giving because they are starving. Not only does his congregation pay his salary and all the church's bills but they also support an exceptional amount of missionaries. They also ended up moving into a larger building.

That's grace giving.

Edited February 7Feb 7 by SureWord

5 minutes ago, SureWord said:

A pastor I know keeps a box in the sanctuary by the entrance. No preaching about robbing God or giving 10% plus offerings above that percentage. No guilt tripping or bringing in any obese guest speakers to bang the pulpit about giving because they are starving. Not only does his congregation pay his salary and all the church's bills but they also support an exceptional amount of missionaries. They also ended up moving into a larger building.

That's grace giving.

Yes. I'm all for people living the freedoms we all have in this world. I too encountered an organization that had two locked boxes in the main outer hallway where people entered into the main room with pews, one for support of the facility and the other for outreaches. Even though the majority of the money was placed into the outreach box, what was placed in the box for the facility and small staffing was always sufficient for the upkeep.

Most of churchianity doesn't trust the "laity" (as they love to call all who aren't "qualified" to stand behind their pulpits) to divide up where their alleged "giving" is going. Control is the prime feature of most religious leadership.

Jr

1 hour ago, SureWord said:

A pastor I know keeps a box in the sanctuary by the entrance. No preaching about robbing God or giving 10% plus offerings above that percentage. No guilt tripping or bringing in any obese guest speakers to bang the pulpit about giving because they are starving. Not only does his congregation pay his salary and all the church's bills but they also support an exceptional amount of missionaries. They also ended up moving into a larger building.

That's grace giving.

Happy to hear this, makes a person want to be part of. Christian normally love to give. I believe a class on managing your money well, is a blessing. But no churches do this, because they too, fall short in managing the offering correctly.

Edited February 7Feb 7 by TheGloryLand

11 hours ago, SwordmanJr said:

Whoever told you that ancient tithing is an OT practice defined by the Law of Moses, that is correct. Those who point to it being a principle established by Abraham, that is utterly false because what Abraham did has nothing to do with modern claims for similarity or principle.

Modern "tithing," then, is based upon nothing more than human tradition and institutional dogmas. Don't get me wrong, professing believers have a right to band together under some creed and form institutional business organizations, hire leadership hirelings within that organization of their choosing, and practice their religious gatherings in whatever way they so choose. Dare they try to erect that house of cards upon the foundations of the Bible, and it collapses under its own weight, given that church organizations stand or fall on the basis of money alone. Pull the money out from under any one of them, and they collapse into a heap.

Now, when considering the Law of the tithe, what most false teaching preachers never tell their blind followers is that the Law never required wage earners to hand over one red cent of their wages to the Levites...not even those wage earners working the fields to harvest the crop from which a tithe was set apart from. Bible Cemeteries know that revealing that truth to their ignorant students who populate pulpits all around the world would cause some serious decline in institutional "giving" from the pockets of the blind masses. The leadership they train up to misrepresent the truth by way of omission or outright false teaching, or combinations of both, remain the dupes of religious education that has long since departed from the integrity of what the scriptures actually say.

As for Abraham allegedly being the source of some contrived "principle," that too is a bold-faced lie of manipulation and slight-of-hand parlor tricks, perpetrated upon the unsuspecting masses who almost never crack their Bibles open to do a systematic study on anything apart from what they are spoon-fed in their milk-toast and wet-noodle Bible studies.

Abraham's vast wealth remained in northern Canaan when he went on that mission of war to retrieve his nephew Lot. Nobody in their right mind would have taken all their herds, flocks, tents, servants and their families, water, food and all the other things of their wealth on a mission of war. He would never have caught up with those kings who themselves were hauling away the wealth of those cities they had raided and stolen from, including captives.

So, if you ever go on a mission of war and win, recapture booty, and meet up with Melchizedek in the desert when intentionally returning the stolen property to the rightful owners, then perhaps you can lay claim to some elusive principle, but until then one remains a dupe to the foolishness of charlatans who intentionally mislead others into lining the pockets of the leadership with a living they don't want to have to go out and earn like all the rest of us when they can so easily shear sheeple each week of their fast buck.

Please don't assume I'm bitter or hateful toward institutionalized religion. I've already stated my agreement with the freedoms we all have in this life to form whatever associations we so choose. My main beef is with the idea that it's all biblical, when in fact it's man-made.

Protestants most generally have no idea just how Roman Catholic they really are in the context of their institutional leanings. I despise the intellectual dishonesties that continue to this day under the guise of harmless niceties where people glean their warm fuzzies, thinking they are blessed. The lack of spiritual maturity among the masses who attend those things on a regular basis, some even for 70 years of their lives, and yet have so little knowledge of the scriptures...it's tragic.

We need more spiritual giants walking this earth, but the paradigm of the masses sitting as an audience, claiming they are enjoying fellowship with the backs of each other's heads, that's a skill I never could master, nor was I willing to fool myself any longer within that framework. Thus my departure from it to find where the Lord would lead.

The so-called "tithe to the church" dogma remains a staple of paying one's dues as they would the Elk or Moose Lodge. They too need the influx of money for their sustenance. When it comes to the funds handed over to churchianity, some may be applied toward missions and food for the down-and-out, which keeps the audience feeling good about their "tithe," the majority of which is lavished right back upon themselves by way of direct benefit from the institution they support through the luxurious use of the over-priced buildings, heating and air conditioning, carpets, stained glass windows, chandeliers (if they have those), paved parking lots, etc.

Those that are more modest and don't have all the fancy trimmings, they too will feel good about their little organization, basking in the light of the contrived modesty they see themselves as possessing, never giving a thought to the fact that reaping an iota of benefit from one's own giving...that's not giving at all, but, hey, living a lie is easier and more enjoyable compared to living consistently and with absolute truth in all things. No wonder scripture teaches us that all men are liars, and God is true...

This will likely strike deep at the love most have for organized religion, even to the point to assaulting this post with their harangue of negativity and whatever other labels some may cast at this, all to keep them felling good about living the lie. The day is fast approaching where the public institutions with buildings and real estate, they will be forced to either buckle to the social, secular gospel, or go down in flames and lose it all.

This world is becoming an increasingly hostile place for true believers. Most are not prepared to walk without the institutional crutches and wheel chairs that keep them moving along, never walking on their own two feet to find out what they're really made of by way of spiritual stature. The usual tendency to continue offering up the usual fare of lip-service professions of being followers of Christ Jesus...which one? There are so many.

That's ok. Stay where you are without ever daring to turn a critical eye to the realities around us, never daring to do as Paul of Tarsus commanded, which is to "Prove all things." The world will continue to appear benevolent while killing the unborn under the guise of "rights" that the institutional system consistently has failed to fight collectively, and all the other failures to rightfully influence the culture in the direction of honoring and glorifying Christ Jesus with the honor He so deserves.

The ethic of the hippies of the 60's is still at play...make love, not war...

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The modern West where we live today was not placed in view of the ancient hearers of Christ's words when that was spoken, even though the Lord sees it all from beginning to end.

Jr

You can try to negate the principle of tithing all you wish. The principle is there and those who follow that principle aren't following "man-made" ideology as you seem to indicate. Sacrificial giving is also a principle, and the two go hand in hand. ALL we have or ever hope to have is the Lord's whether we humans have it in our possession or not. We are mere stewards,, and we are expected to make what he has given us as prosperous in our building of His kingdom and our homes and family. You're always welcome to your opinion on the subject, but, as I have stated before, I and many here will stand by the practice of tithing.

On 2/7/2025 at 5:19 AM, BrotherTony said:

You can try to negate the principle of tithing all you wish. The principle is there and those who follow that principle aren't following "man-made" ideology as you seem to indicate. Sacrificial giving is also a principle, and the two go hand in hand. ALL we have or ever hope to have is the Lord's whether we humans have it in our possession or not. We are mere stewards,, and we are expected to make what he has given us as prosperous in our building of His kingdom and our homes and family. You're always welcome to your opinion on the subject, but, as I have stated before, I and many here will stand by the practice of tithing.

The question I would like to ask of you is, what is the origin of that "principle" you call "tithing"? What's the basis if it's not man-made as taught and practiced within modern churchianity?

That you provided not scripture quotes to back your contention, that speaks loud volumes, for it would be easy for me to quote the OT texts that will clearly show that the tithe was never exacted from the wages of wage earners, such as laborers, clothiers, sandal makers, carpenters (knock on wood), artisans of many and all types, etc., etc., etc.

Also, when you speak of "kingdom" and the building of it, what exactly are you talking about? I'm curious as to your meaning and source. What Kingdom do you think has anything to do with Gentile believers? Scripture has much to say about this that absolutely defies the replacement theology garbage that some church organizations embrace with gusto...sad to say. As an Israeli, I find that doctrine disgustingly evil and downright contentious and hateful.

So, I have no problem with people handing over portions of their living as they so choose, but when they claim its biblically based when receiving back benefit from what they call their "giving to God," that's a lie that has no roots in the scriptures. The ancient tithe of the Law benefitted five groups of people, not those who were required to hand over the tithe. The word of God defines the tithe as the prescribed portions from crops and livestock. No Levite went around collecting a tithe from wage earners.

You're right, however, in that people have a right to call something what it is not, and enjoy the warm fuzzies resulting from such falsehoods. What you described is a tradition that's been going on for a very long time, powerfully influenced upon Protestantism from Roman Catholicism's own tomes of tradition and writings. I say that because the tone of your response is much like saying, "I don't care what the truth is, we have what we want to do, and call it what we want, assume what we want about it, and it matters not one bit what the truth really is within scripture."

So, a spade is a spade, and a club is a club, even when one chooses to call it something else. Giving joyfully and freely to the needy, apart from the Law of Moses and the man-made, contrived claims for allegedly following the example of Abraham, people are always free to fool themselves into feeling good about it all. I'm not here to take that away from you or anyone else. I just ask that people be honest and forthright when laying claim to being biblical, when in fact they are not. The world is more than filled with falsehoods and pretense. It's much more enjoyable when people claiming to love and follow Christ Jesus to be real with the book they say that they believe, and to teach consistently what it teaches. We're all liars, you know, but God is true. That is what matters.

Jr