Question about divorce

[Pastorj]

Read through my post again if you need to. God gives no reasons for Divorce. None, Zilch, Zero and any other word that means none. The "Exception clause" is dealing with the espousal period, not marriage. If one commits any of those sins in Bible times, they are put to death.

Today, a child molester, wife beater or any such like deserves to go to prison and rot there the rest of their life, but even in that God does not allow divorce.

[Jerry]

I believe you can also apply it to when a couple gets married and learns the other partner is not a virgin (ie. the wife coming to the marriage altar under false pretenses):

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

So when I read that passage from the Gospels, I do not think of the time during their engagement, but the time before the engagement, where the husband is led to believe he is marrying a pure woman, and then upon marriage realizing she is not.

[heartstrings]

Read through my post again if you need to. God gives no reasons for Divorce. None' date=' Zilch, Zero and any other word that means none.[/quote'] Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Please show a chapter and verse.

True, and then the living spouse was free to marry, correct?

true!

Please show a chapter and verse.

Please answer my questions....
Is child molestation by a married man, fornication?
Is a married man who is a sodomite, committing fornication?
Please show me some biblical connections which prove the "exception clause" means what you say, because Jesus only said "except it be for fornication".

[Pastorj]

Heartstrings,

Read my post. I have already shown you chapter and verse to explain the espousal period.

[heartstrings]

Heartstrings,

Read my post. I have already shown you chapter and verse to explain the espousal period.

Pastorj,
If I missed something forgive me and point it out but, all I saw was the account of Mary and Joseph.
But does this account show that "fornication" can only be committed before or during the espousal period.

I ask you again...........
Is child molestation by a married man, fornication?
Is a married man who is a sodomite, committing fornication?
Please show me some biblical connections which prove the "exception clause" means what you say, because Jesus only said "except it be for fornication".

[Pastorj]

As stated in my original post.

Do a study of the word fornication. What you will find is that it is used in two ways. First, it is used to deal with general sexual sin between unmarried individuals. The second way it is used (almost equally) is to deal with spiritual fornication (idolatry).

Now, Jesus uses this term, verses the term Adultery when he makes the so-called exception clause. I have already shown in this passage that God from the beginning did not allow Divorce. That Moses allowed it, but not God. That Jesus stated that man cannot divide what God has joined together. These verses clearly teach that Divorce is wrong in all circumstances.

Jesus cannot contradict Himself or Scripture. Jesus explains that the only time a divorce is permitted is for fornication, not adultery. He further explains that if one marries a divorced person, they are committing adultery (a term used for married people). Why, because in God's eyes they are still married.

As to your other questions,
As stated before. Fornication is a general sexual sin term. God calls sodomites, sodomites and so should we.

If you wish to hold to the exception clause, you must prove that Jesus didn't really mean it when he said, "from the beginning it was not so" and "What God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." You must also figure out how the one can be divided back into two. And finally, you must figure out how marrying a divorced person would be adultery if they are no longer married in God's eyes.

One must look at the entire passage, not just one verse. When looking at the entire passage, there is only one conclusion you can have.

[John81]

Pastorj :amen:

[heartstrings]

As stated in my original post.

Do a study of the word fornication. What you will find is that it is used in two ways. First, it is used to deal with general sexual sin between unmarried individuals. The second way it is used (almost equally) is to deal with spiritual fornication (idolatry).

You are correct; the term "fornication" is used in connection with idolatry....so is adultery. However I have found no passage or verse which limits "fornication" to "unmarried individuals", absolutely none. Please show me one

Now, Jesus uses this term, verses the term Adultery when he makes the so-called exception clause. I have already shown in this passage that God from the beginning did not allow Divorce. That Moses allowed it, but not God. That Jesus stated that man cannot divide what God has joined together. These verses clearly teach that Divorce is wrong in all circumstances.

Jesus cannot contradict Himself or Scripture. Jesus explains that the only time a divorce is permitted is for fornication, not adultery. He further explains that if one marries a divorced person, they are committing adultery (a term used for married people). Why, because in God's eyes they are still married.

Sir, the Old Testament Law says that adulterers and fornicators are supposed to be put to death.

As to your other questions,
As stated before. Fornication is a general sexual sin term. God calls sodomites, sodomites and so should we.

Absolutely, that's the way I see it. Fornication covers ALL physical sex sins, including physical adultery. You can commit "Adultery" by only "looking and lusting". But fornication must be a physical illicit sex. 1 Corinthians 6:18,
There are armed robbers, burglars, embezzlers and shoplifters but they all fall under one category...THEFT...understand? Jude 1:7

If you wish to hold to the exception clause, you must prove that Jesus didn't really mean it when he said, "from the beginning it was not so" and "What God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." You must also figure out how the one can be divided back into two. And finally, you must figure out how marrying a divorced person would be adultery if they are no longer married in God's eye

One must look at the entire passage, not just one verse. When looking at the entire passage, there is only one conclusion you can have.

I've been married for 23 years to my first and only wife, and I plan on another 23 years. I'm not "holding" to anything but the word of God as I understand it. Pastorj, there are women who are DYING from AIDS because their promiscuous husbands brought it home to them. There are great numbers of children who are molested by their OWN FATHERS. Sir, it only takes ONE extramarital affair to bring home VD to your mate. God does not expect us to live like that. I believe God Himself put the "exception clause" in there for protection. Sir, fornication is any and ALL physical sexual sins. 1 Corinthians 6:18

[Guest Guest]

Heartstrings, I agree with you about the meaning of fornication etc. I am wondering though...I understood that viewing pornography might also be considered fornication...what is your opinion on this?

[heartstrings]

Heartstrings' date=' I agree with you about the meaning of fornication etc. I am wondering though...I understood that viewing pornography might also be considered fornication...what is your opinion on this?[/quote']


According to how I understand it, fornication is a physical act.
1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

It affects and dishonours the body.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Looking at pornography would be lust.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

But lust, leads to the act.
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[Guest Guest]

That makes sense.

[Pastorj]

I will answer your question regarding fornication tomorrow when I have a moment.

However, please explain the rest of the passage then when God says the following:

Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

God states that the two become one and cannot be divided.
God also states that divorce was not allowed from the Beginning.

Can Jesus go against Scripture? The answer is no.

He does not change Scripture, he enhances it. For instance he enhances murder and adultery, he doesn't change it.

So since he cannot change God's law, he can only enhance it, he is not permitting divorce when God the father does not.

[Pastorj]

Here is one verse that is clearly speaking about sex prior to marriage

Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

[Pastorj]

Here's another proof passage
1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

[heartstrings]

Here is one verse that is clearly speaking about sex prior to marriage

Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

The only thing it is clearly speaking about sex outside of marriage; it says nothing about prior to anything. A married man can father an illegitimate child.