What is wrong with Christian Contemporary Music and Rock?

[Jerry]

So there are degrees of Christian music? Worship music for church, rocking and rolling music at home?

Your analogy is flawed:

There are plenty of things that are good, right and appropriate that we all do outside of church but wouldn't be appropriate in the assembly of the church. Just ask those who are married.

In the instance we are talking about they are both music. There is not a certain kind of sex that is appropriate in church.

[trc123]

So there are degrees of Christian music? Worship music for church, rocking and rolling music at home?

Your analogy is flawed:



In the instance we are talking about they are both music. There is not a certain kind of sex that is appropriate in church.

Jerry,

Give it a break. There certainly are things that we all do in our lives that are totally appropriate and fine before God but they would not be appropriate in another setting, such as in Church. It's called propriety.

[Jerry]

There are some things that are wrong all the time. It is like some trying to argue that certain movies are innapropriate or wrong for children to watch, but are okay for adults to watch; however, if there is immoral content in that movie, it is wrong for anyone to watch. I believe rock music is wrong for believers - regardless of whether it is being played at church or at home.

[kevinmiller]

I am just a inch or two away from my degree in music but for one semester I thought I wanted to be a music business person. According to the director of the music business program, (who was a big-time industry lawyer in NYC,) that "there are some definite quality issues right now in the emerging genre of Contemporary Christian music."

For many reasons, I am not for rock music during church services.
But it's funny that a 100% secular source says that CCM has issues too.

Just wanted to point out that the secular world is judging the "quality" of CCM, not the morality of it. Why would he trust a non-Christians moral view of CCM anyway. I have heard that many CCM artists are not nearly up to par when it comes to real talent and performance. Not really anything to do with the morality of it, though.

[Guest Guest]

Why would he trust a non-Christians moral view of CCM anyway.

Maybe, because a non-Christian can see so much "worldliness" from a person who "claims" to be a man or woman walking with Christ? BTW, I am not directing this to any OB member, this is just a blanket statement.


My pastor has said---"There are 2 reasons that a person comes to know Jesus Christ as personal Saviour? Either they know a "true" Christian or they don't? A Christian is a Christ follower. :smile Everyone seems to use the word "Christian" so liberally today. I love this scripture from Mark 10:21...Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. KJV. Oh---how I have a burden and desire to do that. Blessings missionaries. "...and come take up the cross, and follow me."

[kevinmiller]

Maybe, because a non-Christian can see so much "worldliness" from a person who "claims" to be a man or woman walking with Christ? BTW, I am not directing this to any OB member, this is just a blanket statement.

That's what I used to think, too. But the people that I know who are the most passionate about Christ and have given me the most spiritual encouragement and tell me often that they are praying for me and encouraging me to have faith ALL listen to CCM. It doesn't line up. I don't think it has anything to do with the music, I just think they're heart's focus is where it ought to be, rather than being set on standards and adherence to them. It doesn't at all line up with what I used to think and was taught about those who listen to rock music.

[speerjp1]

That's what I used to think' date=' too. But the people that I know who are the most passionate about Christ and have given [b']me the most spiritual encouragement and tell me often that they are praying for me and encouraging me to have faith ALL listen to CCM. It doesn't line up. I don't think it has anything to do with the music, I just think they're heart's focus is where it ought to be, rather than being set on standards and adherence to them. It doesn't at all line up with what I used to think and was taught about those who listen to rock music.

So are you saying that if their focus is on you, then they are right?

I know the same kinds of people you're talking about and for the most part they are shallow posers who seek to gloss their worldliness over with a facade of morality based on a loose grasp of the word of God.

[Guest Guest]

If you can't play it in church, should you be listening to it at home? And Tobymac may make references to the Bible or have partial quotes from it, but many of his lyrics are pretty vague, and some don't even make sense at all!

Well its a start you actually listened to some :lol Notice the part of the post on stagein the post. The best thing about many of these CCM artists is not if everything lines up with the KJV bible scriptually but rather they live their walk and spread the gospel to many people. Yes some are very young Christians but most that I have heard are daughters and sons of Pastors. Many are worship leaders at their church they support missionaries all over the world. They minister differently not wrongly to the lostworld. (Rock)Oh i'd play it if it was sent by the spirit Jerry but people like you would judge it to the point you would not honor God in your grumblings so I would refrain not to cause you to stumble. I accept the old west "saloon" style the piano player plays the hymns I do not agree with her style but I accept it and worship the same God with her singing hymns. Tank

1st Corinthians 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

[kevinmiller]

So are you saying that if their focus is on you, then they are right?

I know the same kinds of people you're talking about and for the most part they are shallow posers who seek to gloss their worldliness over with a facade of morality based on a loose grasp of the word of God.

Their focus is on me? Where in earth did you possibly get that from?? I said when their focus is where it ought to be(i.e. on God and on loving Him).

No, you don't know the people that I'm talking about. I've never met more genuine Christians in my life. You can see it in their conversation, in their actions, and in their lifestyle, they have a real passion for the things of God. They aren't focused on worldly things, they are seeking God's will, joining together in prayer, discussing Biblical doctrine and verses with others. These people are genuine Christ-followers.

Just as a for-example, because I happened to think about it when I was posting this, a couple of my friends came to my house for my last birthday from Illinois and Minnesota. We all slept in the basement and when I woke up early the next morning, I looked up from my pillow and saw one of my friends sitting in the chair by the bed reading his Bible. This particular friend is also always interested to know what everyone else is reading in their Bible on any given day. Those are the kind of people I'm talking about and those are the kinds of friends I have.

[speerjp1]

[offtopic]I highlighted all the me's in your earlier post.

No' date=' you don't know the people that I'm talking about. I've never met more genuine Christians in my life. You can see it in their conversation, in their actions, and in their lifestyle, they have a real passion for the things of God. They aren't focused on worldly things, they are seeking God's will, joining together in prayer, discussing Biblical doctrine and verses with others. These people are genuine Christ-followers.[/quote']

You say they aren't focused on worldly things, but why is that "brand" of Christianity (I don't know about your particular friends. I'm just going on what you've said here and assuming that they are at least somewhat like you.) so concerned with looking, dressing, acting, and talking like and participating in, drinking, and being enamored with the same stuff the world is? Relevance seems to be the prime focus, not Christ-likeness. In fact, relevance seems to have become the new "Christ-likeness."

[kevinmiller]

You say they aren't focused on worldly things, but why is that "brand" of Christianity (I don't know about your particular friends. I'm just going on what you've said here and assuming that they are at least somewhat like you.) so concerned with looking, dressing, acting, and talking like and participating in, drinking, and being enamored with the same stuff the world is? Relevance seems to be the prime focus, not Christ-likeness. In fact, relevance seems to have become the new "Christ-likeness."

Who ever said they were concerned with looking and acting like the world? They're focus is on Christ and it is evidenced by their actions and conversation. They may do the same things that unsaved people do, just like a lot of unsaved people use computers. You're not trying to be "relevant" to the world are you, by using a computer?

You just don't find Bible students in IFB churches. :roll

That wasn't my point at all and that should've been obvious. My point was that a person who listens to CCM or secular music can have as much or more passion for God than those who don't listen to it. Sure, a lot of IFB'ers are faithful to God and spending time in His Word, so are those who aren't IFB and those that listen to music you don't approve of.

[Jerry]

[My point was that a person who listens to CCM or secular music can have as much or more passion for God than those who don't listen to it. Sure' date=' a lot of IFB'ers are faithful to God and spending time in His Word, so are those who aren't IFB and those that listen to music [b']you don't approve of.

BUT IS GOD PLEASED WITH A ZEAL THAT IS BASED ON DISOBEDIENCE, THAT IS FORMED FROM A LACK OF SEPARATION FROM THE WORLD? Wordliness does not please Him - God doesn't care about how much zeal you have if it isn't in line with His Word.

That's what I used to think, too. But the people that I know who are the most passionate about Christ and have given me the most spiritual encouragement and tell me often that they are praying for me and encouraging me to have faith ALL listen to CCM. It doesn't line up. I don't think it has anything to do with the music, I just think they're heart's focus is where it ought to be, rather than being set on standards and adherence to them. It doesn't at all line up with what I used to think and was taught about those who listen to rock music.

So your theology is based on your experience (ie. subjective), rather than on God's Word (objective). It is based on your feelings - it feels good, must be right. Oh they are excited, must be totally devoted to God and close to Him. There are a lot of zealous people that are religious - that even proclaim to know and love Jesus, but this is what He says to some of them:

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Did you see that last part? That is referring to those who profess to know Jesus BUT IGNORE HIS WORD, IGNORE HIS COMMANDS. Seems like God has a different view on this issue than you do. What pleases and impresses you does not please and impress Him.

[speerjp1]

:goodpost:

[kevinmiller]

BUT IS GOD PLEASED WITH A ZEAL THAT IS BASED ON DISOBEDIENCE, THAT IS FORMED FROM A LACK OF SEPARATION FROM THE WORLD? Wordliness does not please Him - God doesn't care about how much zeal you have if it isn't in line with His Word.



So your theology is based on your experience (ie. subjective), rather than on God's Word (objective). It is based on your feelings - it feels good, must be right. Oh they are excited, must be totally devoted to God and close to Him. There are a lot of zealous people that are religious - that even proclaim to know and love Jesus, but this is what He says to some of them:

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Did you see that last part? That is referring to those who profess to know Jesus BUT IGNORE HIS WORD, IGNORE HIS COMMANDS. Seems like God has a different view on this issue than you do. What pleases and impresses you does not please and impress Him.

This whole post is entirely based on the assumption that God's Word says that music with a drum beat is sinful and ungodly. That is a premise that I do not hold to, therefore, your post is not worth much. First, you must prove that music is ungodly before you can go this direction.

[MilkmanDan]

This whole post is entirely based on the assumption that God's Word says that music with a drum beat is sinful and ungodly. That is a premise that I do not hold to, therefore, your post is not worth much. First, you must prove that music is ungodly before you can go this direction.

First, you must prove that music is ungodly before you can go this direction.

Thats wayyy easy.

Un Godly Un being the prefix for no and Godly God like in nature.

I believe there is nothing godly in rock music therefore all the CCM is ungodly, Jingle Bells a good song is also ungodly.

God is not in this music.


1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil