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JerryNumbers
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Is it proper to have lots of children depending on the government helping to feed & clothe them?  

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  1. 1. Is it proper to have lots of children depending on the government helping to feed & clothe them?

    • Yes
      3
    • No
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    • I don't know
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
You're not taking control from God if you put some thought into when and how to have children. How could you take control from God? If you're going to say that it's a disobedient thing to do, and that in doing so you're going against His perfect will, you have to be able to show that God is against people giving any consideration to when they have children.

Rev320, I'll respond to each of the verses you posted.

Genesis 30:2: Rachel hasn't been able to have children. Any children. Jacob becomes angry when she seems to blame him, and says that it's not his doing; it's God's. Yes, God controls everything. Nothing here that really addresses the issue of people thinking about when they should have children though.

Genesis 30:22: God heals Rachel's womb. Same as above.

Deuteronomy 7:13: Obey God's commandments and He will bless you, and bless your children (fruit of the womb). Again, it's saying that children are good, that we should have children and multiply. It's not saying that we should have no influence at all over whether or not we have the largest family that is biologically possible.

1 Samuel 1:5-6: God closed Hannah's womb. Yes, God controls aspects of our bodies that are beyond our control or influences. That's not the issue here.

Regarding Psalm 127:3: We've gone over this one already, but I think there's a strong link here between labor and the number of children that you have to help with the labor. Context (what life was like then) is very important here in my opinion.

God's message as I read it, in all of these:

"Children are good."

"Have children."

"Don't willfully stay childless."



This is absolutely not the same thing as "Don't ever try to avoid pregnancy, at any time."

Arguing that it does mean exactly this just strikes me as extrapolating too much with God's word....It feels like dogma.


Don't you think the real issue here is HOW people try to avoid having children that is the problem?
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Scripture is clear that it is God who is to decide when and how many children we do or don't have. ANYTHING we do to prevent God's will from being done is taking God's authority as our own, and that's rebellion.

If we plan and decide in our own minds what we think is the right number of children to have and when to have them we have expressly told God that we know better than Him! There are biblical examples of those who refused to wait upon the Lord's timing and will in such matters and they led to tragic consequences.

While some ponder how many potential great preachers may have been lost to abortion or how many great scientists who may have cured cancer were lost due to abortion, there be few who ponder how many such were prevented from being because couples rejected God's will in this area of their lives and refused to have children according to His will and timing.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Scripture is clear that it is God who is to decide when and how many children we do or don't have. ANYTHING we do to prevent God's will from being done is taking God's authority as our own, and that's rebellion.

If we plan and decide in our own minds what we think is the right number of children to have and when to have them we have expressly told God that we know better than Him! There are biblical examples of those who refused to wait upon the Lord's timing and will in such matters and they led to tragic consequences.

While some ponder how many potential great preachers may have been lost to abortion or how many great scientists who may have cured cancer were lost due to abortion, there be few who ponder how many such were prevented from being because couples rejected God's will in this area of their lives and refused to have children according to His will and timing.


*opens can of worms* Do you think it is a sin for a husband and wife to agree to abstain during certain key days of the month?
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Scripture is clear that it is God who is to decide when and how many children we do or don't have. ANYTHING we do to prevent God's will from being done is taking God's authority as our own' date=' and that's rebellion. [/quote']

Okay, you just ignored everything I said and repeated yourself. I guess there's no point in me continuing this.

One more thing though-



That's a statistically illogical point. With more people, you also get more murderers, more Hitlers, more Stalins, more enemies of the faith (like evolutionists, abortionists, etc. etc.). It's not as though you get more "good" or win a higher overall percentage of souls just because you increase the population.

Anyways like I said, I have to stop posting in this thread now.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist


*opens can of worms* Do you think it is a sin for a husband and wife to agree to abstain during certain key days of the month?


That would depend upon whether they are abstaining for the express purpose of avoiding pregnancy or if they are abstaining according to Scripture for a season of prayer.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist


I didn't ignore what you said but the Bible is clear and nothing you said refuted the Word of God.

No one stated that just because a person has a child means the child will be good. That said, your statement could be used to bolster the idea that abortion is a good idea, after all, they are surely managing to prevent some murderers and other bad people from entering the world. Of course that doesn't hold water.

As well, we are discussing Christians here and if they are following Christ and living by the Word of God it's far more likely their children will be raised for good, hopefully come to Christ and serve the Lord.

And again, it all boils down to the fact that God knows EVERYTHING, He knows the beginning from the end. He knows when and how many children to give and He knows the life those children will live beforehand.

The same God that allowed the apostle Paul to be born also allowed Adolph Hitler to be born and also allowed both of us to be born; each for His own specific purposes according to His perfect plan.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

consider this - Muslims are planning to populate the entire world - so they are encouraged to have as many children as possible - so men who have 30+ children and several wives are not uncommon.

Christians should have the children that God intended them to have - not the 2.5 children that society dictates that they have. I have to wonder about families who have their children exactly 2 years apart - makes me wonder if the child that was left out in between those two years could have been somebody important?

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consider this - Muslims are planning to populate the entire world - so they are encouraged to have as many children as possible - so men who have 30+ children and several wives are not uncommon.

Christians should have the children that God intended them to have - not the 2.5 children that society dictates that they have. I have to wonder about families who have their children exactly 2 years apart - makes me wonder if the child that was left out in between those two years could have been somebody important?


Do you really live your life going around "wondering" about the mating and breeding habits of other people around you?

As there could be a dozen reasons (other than modern family planning) for couples to have children "2 years apart," it sounds like a very cynical way to live.
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in a way, I agree with IM4given.

everywhere I read, or go, everyone suggested 2 or 3 apart. It it seem that what the society tell them. kinda like the society tell you what clothes you should wear, otherwise people would still be wearing bell bottoms. I personally think it is up between the husband and wife to decide the best time to have a child.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

What bothers me most, is that so many Christians are losing their children to the world, because they're sending their children mixed signals, as far as Christ and God is concerned, many are telling their children the right thing way to live, but fail to live Christ in front of their children, therefore their children are following their examples, not what their parents are telling them to live. Children are much smarter than parents give them credit for. many parents are not follong their children for a moment..

I really believe the Muslims are setting a much better example for their children than Christians are.

The only answer I know to this is that all of us live the proper examples, that is that we live a living sacrifice in our own little part of this world. Living that living sacrifice is so important.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore brethren, by the mercies of God, that yee present your bodies a liuing sacrifice, holy, acceptable vnto God, which is your reasonable seruice.

Rom 12:2 And bee not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renuing of your minde, that ye may proue what is that good, that acceptable and perfect will of God.

KJ 1611

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist


That would depend upon whether they are abstaining for the express purpose of avoiding pregnancy or if they are abstaining according to Scripture for a season of prayer.


I meant for avoiding pregnancy.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
consider this - Muslims are planning to populate the entire world - so they are encouraged to have as many children as possible - so men who have 30+ children and several wives are not uncommon.

Christians should have the children that God intended them to have - not the 2.5 children that society dictates that they have. I have to wonder about families who have their children exactly 2 years apart - makes me wonder if the child that was left out in between those two years could have been somebody important?


Well, be careful to give people the benefit of the doubt. My first two are 12 months apart. (I could not breastfeed the first and got blessed with #2 right away, much sooner than I expected since we were married nearly 2yrs. before our first one arrived) and the rest of our children are 2 years apart EXCEPT for between #4 and #5 and #6 and #7--they are nearly 3yr. apart because I had a miscarriage between both. They are nicely spaced due to long breastfeeding that kept my cycles away for 12-14 mo. (I hope no one thinks that is a sin.) And yes, I took full advantage of this to space my children out on purpose as a means of natural "birth control"--this information, of course, would horrify most Ob doctors. I loved the look on my doctor's face when she inquired and I gave her that response. :Bleh
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Do you really believe people have alot of children because they feel that the government will take care of them? Anyone that believes this has never been on welfare or needed help from the government. Those people do not get very much for each child and although some may abuse the system this is not the case across the board.

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Scripture is clear that it is God who is to decide when and how many children we do or don't have. ANYTHING we do to prevent God's will from being done is taking God's authority as our own, and that's rebellion.

If we plan and decide in our own minds what we think is the right number of children to have and when to have them we have expressly told God that we know better than Him! There are biblical examples of those who refused to wait upon the Lord's timing and will in such matters and they led to tragic consequences.

While some ponder how many potential great preachers may have been lost to abortion or how many great scientists who may have cured cancer were lost due to abortion, there be few who ponder how many such were prevented from being because couples rejected God's will in this area of their lives and refused to have children according to His will and timing.

:amen::amen::amen::amen::amen: The LORD always knows best! Pixiedust
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Isn't it really about obeying God, when we obey God a child is a real blessing, a blessed gift. Is a child really a blessing for those who do not obey God and have sex outside on marriage?


Scripture teaches us that the Lord bestows His blessings on the just and unjust alike.

Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
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