Holy Spirit baptism

[MikeWatson1]

I'm pretty sure this has been covered before.  But where in scripture does the Holy Spirit baptise anyone at salvation?

I know regeneration is sort of figuratively the Holy Spirit baptizing.. but I don't actually see it in scripture. 

The key verse many like to use is 1 Co 12:13

 

But 1... later the body being defined is the one at Corinth. 

2... 'spirit' here has been capitalized but can be small s.

So.. being baptized in water.. in one spirit of unity...in reference to the church they want to join.

 

Paul I think joined Antioch..so he would have been baptised in reference to that body.  The Corinthians baptised in reference to their body at Corinth. 

So I don't see where the Holy Spirit baptises anyone.

 

[TheGloryLand]

What I understand, baptisms don’t have anything to do membership of any church. It’s just a step of obedience Christians take after getting Saved. Membership of a church, is a man made thing. For we are the church, not the locations. 

[Jim_Alaska]

3 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

What I understand, baptisms don’t have anything to do membership of any church. It’s just a step of obedience Christians take after getting Saved. Membership of a church, is a man made thing. For we are the church, not the locations. 

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Paul affirms that the "one body" is the local church.

1 Corinthians 12:18 (KJV) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Romans 12:4 (KJV) For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

[TheGloryLand]

2 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Paul affirms that the "one body" is the local church.

1 Corinthians 12:18 (KJV) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Romans 12:4 (KJV) For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

Thanks, these verses back up what I said. We all become one body, brother and sister in Christ. The church is a place where a body of members (believers) meet. If the building burned to the ground. Will meet somewhere else or out in the open. 

[Jim_Alaska]

No TGL, these verses don't back up what you said. The body is local, not universal. God places each person in the local church as it pleases Him.

Your second sentence is correct. But in your other reply you said, "baptisms don’t have anything to do membership of any church".

Baptism is the "door" to membership in a local church. If you are not baptized you cannot be a member. This is basic Baptist doctrine that has been practiced from the beginning.

Acts 2:41 (KJV) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

What these people were added to was the Local church and they were added by baptism.  Saved, Baptized, Added, this is the proper order. You can only add to something that is already there, in this case it was the first church at Jerusalem. On the day of Pentecost three thousand souls were added to that church.

[MikeWatson1]

13 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

What I understand, baptisms don’t have anything to do membership of any church. It’s just a step of obedience Christians take after getting Saved. Membership of a church, is a man made thing. For we are the church, not the locations. 

Every believer being called 'the church' is the most popular belief among christians today.. across all denominations.  But it's just something that not that many have really taken apart and really studied.

Matthew 16:18.. Jesus building His church.. it's got to be local here because it's local in Matthew 18:20. Jesus isn't going to contradict Himself. Why would He introduce the church as a universal every believer thing in 16:18-- and then later make not that.. but local?

So-- 'the church' in Matt 16:18 is like 'the horse'  'the cat' 'the dog'.  That's not one particular dog or cat or horse.. but one representing them all.  So if I say-- the church is in decline.  That means the local unit.  Not every believer. 

In scripture-- the church 

1) assembles (universal church can't do that)

2) has ordinances- Lord's Supper and tithing (universal church doesn't have these)

3) can teach and admonish and build up christians in the faith (universal church can do nothing)

4) is located in different areas (universal church has no location)

Of course- -every believer will eventually be assembled as one body in heaven.  But that is not a present reality. We are not one body yet.  The church assembles.  It is an assembly by definition. The universal church does not assemble. 

Lastly-- what I joined when I as converted-  is the Family of God. This is not the body of Christ they aren't the same thing.

[Invicta]

11 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Paul affirms that the "one body" is the local church.

1 Corinthians 12:18 (KJV) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Romans 12:4 (KJV) For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

Those verses don't have any relevance to the local church. One body means all the church. Christ only has one body. One bride, one temple all of which mean The church.  Jesus said he was building His Church,  not his churches. 2 Corr 2:16 "You are the Temple of the living God." One temple.

[TheGloryLand]

Remember God made this World, and everything in it. God made us, we are living in it. But it is controlled by Satan, and his servants, evil spirit. Jesus said, tear this house down, and I’ll build it up in three days. The only earthly temple that will be rebuilt, is in Israel. The End Time

[MikeWatson1]

12 hours ago, Invicta said:

Those verses don't have any relevance to the local church. One body means all the church. Christ only has one body. One bride, one temple all of which mean The church.  Jesus said he was building His Church,  not his churches. 2 Corr 2:16 "You are the Temple of the living God." One temple.

Well.. you would know though of 'the cat' 'the bar' 'the school'

 

That is not one universal cat.. or one universal bar.. or one universal school.  It's singular standing for plural cats, bars and schools.  This is normal grammar in English, which many seem to have forgotten when thinking about 'the church'

So in scripture .. it is with 'the church'.  It's always local and visible.  Note though:  it is not a building.  The building is the material around the local assembly of saved baptised believers.. which is the church.

 

Edited March 12 by MikeWatson1

[Jim_Alaska]

Invicta, I won't get into a big discussion with you over your belief in a universal church, except to tell you of my personal experience. When I was saved and  baptized, I was baptized into a local church. There is "one Lord, one Faith and one Baptism"

[MikeWatson1]

Regarding 'there is one body'

The context around this verse is unity in the body at Ephesus. For an example to be distributed to other churches.

Also.. 'there is' is inserted for bibles that are honest about it.  So it can read 'one body, one faith etc..'

Which means it can apply to any body of believers.

This is body as in assembly, congregation. So there can be many.  One Jesus with many many congregations He calls His own.

But back to Holy Spirit baptism. The times I see this I don't see it happening to anyone apart from a whole assembly. That's what happened in Acts.. and repeats. It's a group thing

 

 

 

 

[Jim_Alaska]

Thank you Bro. Mike.  In this example God's Holy Spirit baptized His church, as the institution that Jesus built.

And so, it was His church that was baptized, not any single individual.

[MikeWatson1]

2 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Thank you Bro. Mike.  In this example God's Holy Spirit baptized His church, as the institution that Jesus built.

And so, it was His church that was baptized, not any single individual.

Yeah, that's what I see in scripture.  But individual Holy Spirit baptism at salvation is the most popular belief.  It's interesting.

I can see why people have the Holy Spirit baptising an individual at salvation.  If they believe in a universal church that you enter into at salvation.. then to align with 1 Co 12:13.. it MUST be at salvation and for the individual.  It's a series of dominoes..  if the body is universal.. then this happens and this happens..

Anyway.  It's a very rare thing to have the body of Christ as local only.  I shouldn't get to hung up on people that don't agree  with it.  I just think few ever really study it out.  The book Real Churches or a Fog by S.E Anderson convinced me.

[TheGloryLand]

The first works of a new Christian. Getting baptized, not for salvation. When they are ready to do so. Many churches can be push shy doing this. Can a person become a member of a church before baptism? I say yes, but many will say no, they cannot. This is why I mentioned, it’s a man made thing. The thief that die at the cross didn’t have time to get baptized.

[Jim_Alaska]

TGL,

no, the thief didn't get baptized, but he was not a member of any church either.

Scriptural Baptists have never accepted anyone that was not scripturally baptized as a member. This was why we were called Anabaptists (meaning re-baptizers) by the Catholic Church. We would not accept  as members, anyone that was not scripturally baptized; so we baptized them scripturally before accepting them as members. Baptism is a mandatory prerequisite to membership in a scriptural Baptist Church.

Acts 2:41 (KJV) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Do you see the proper sequence here? Baptized, then added.

[TheGloryLand]

2 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

TGL, no the thief didn't get baptized, but he was not a member of any church either.

Scriptural Baptists have never accepted anyone that was not scripturally baptized as a member. This was why we were called Anabaptists (meaning re-baptizers) by the Catholic Church. We would not accept  as members, anyone that was not scripturally baptized; so we baptized them scripturally before accepting them as members. Baptism is a mandatory prerequisite to membership in a scriptural Baptist Church.

Acts 2:41 (KJV) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Do you see the proper sequence here? Baptized, then added.

Yes, I do support this, for membership. I’ve also support the Free Gift for Salvation, this is through the Grace and Faith in Jesus Christ Only. Making sure that works are not added. Can baptisms be forced as works? To become a member of the local church. Is there a time period or deadline. Membership should never be more important, than a person getting Saved then Baptized.

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, TheGloryLand said:

Yes, I do support this, for membership. I’ve also support the Free Gift for Salvation, this is through the Grace and Faith in Jesus Christ Only. Making sure that works are not added. Can baptisms be forced as works? To become a member of the local church. Is there a time period or deadline. Membership should never be more important, than a person getting Saved then Baptized.

Side note here and question...the way you've worded this about salvation makes it seem like you hold a belief in Calvinism. Is this the case? 

Edited March 14 by BrotherTony

[TheGloryLand]

6 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Side note here and question...the way you've worded this about salvation makes it seem like you hold a belief in Calvinism. Is this the case? 

I don’t even know what Calvinism means. 

[MikeWatson1]

This is the other thing that happens when we say baptism is a pre-requisite to join the church. 

Since most equate the church with salvation... then they think we mean getting baptised to get saved. 

But, since we believe the church has nothing to do with eternal salvation.. we definitely don't believe baptism gets someone saved.  If fact baptism to get someone saved is the mark of a cult or non-christian religion.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

Question:  Is Romans 6:3-4 talking about "water" baptism or about "Spirit" baptism? 

(Note: From my understanding "Spirit" baptism is NOT an event wherein the Holy Spirit is the agent who baptizes us.  Rather, from my understanding "Spirit" baptism should be viewed as an event wherein Jesus Christ is the agent who baptizes us in the "substance" of the Holy Spirit, as per Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16.)

Additional question:  Is Galatians 4:26-29 (specifically verse 27 in the context) talking about "water" baptism or about "Spirit" baptism?

Another additional question:  Is Colossians 2:10-14 (specifically verse 12 in the context) talking about "water" baptism or about "Spirit" baptism?

Edited March 15 by Pastor Scott Markle