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Being born again


Maxmya

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Doug138 wrote: Adam was created in the image of God. When he sinned, he died in two ways. First, the Spirit of God left him, & he became spiritually dead. Second, the flesh God made him was created to last forever, but after he sinned, the death process began.

The rest of us were not so much created in God's image, but in Adam's fallen image. Adam was created eternal and died. We were born spiritually dead, like our father Adam, but can be reborn. When we are born again, we re-acquire what Adam had originally, the Spirit of God in us.

Hey, Doug...that statement is great....You are soooooo right! I love it!

You know the new birth in the Spirit is kinda like the physical birth. When a baby is born into this world, there is a cry, if not, the doctor spanks and then the baby cries, if the baby doesn't cry, then it is a dead baby. That is the way it is in the Spiritual birth. When someone receives the Holy Ghost, there will be evidence of the Spirtual birth, and that evidence is the cry of the tongues. If there is no tongues, then the babe never is born alive. A repented baby will stay in the womb and never enjoy real life until they are fully born again. That is why we must seek the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.


By this definition of yours, June, you are calling me and every other baptist on here unsaved--having NOT been born again because we "DON'T speak in tongues" (basically that we are on our way to hell); was that your intention? I came to OB to learn and fellowship with like-minded believers. I'm not saying that I wouldn't listen to or check-out your interpretation of some verses out of the Bible, but I would expect that you would seriously take to heart that which people like brodave is trying to explain to you as well. I may have misunderstood your intentions, please forgive me if I have, but in your post it seems you are trying to teach us with authority, rather than learn from us or discuss with us what WE believe.......it is, after all, an IFB board.
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By this definition of yours, June, you are calling me and every other baptist on here unsaved--having NOT been born again because we "DON'T speak in tongues" (basically that we are on our way to hell); was that your intention? I came to OB to learn and fellowship with like-minded believers. I'm not saying that I wouldn't listen to or check-out your interpretation of some verses out of the Bible, but I would expect that you would seriously take to heart that which people like brodave is trying to explain to you as well. I may have misunderstood your intentions, please forgive me if I have, but in your post it seems you are trying to teach us with authority, rather than learn from us or discuss with us what WE believe.......it is, after all, an IFB board.


I think I read in another post concerning "June" that she has "moved on," which I interpret to mean she's been given the moderator boot.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

1 Cor 9:26 (KJV)

Yes, one who beats the air with and unknown tongue is doing nothing but beating the air. And that is all those tongue speaking people do, is beateth the air.

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Was it Paul in Galations that said he hasn't arrived but went on striving for perfection in Christ ?
Paul both a grace and new works preacher ? Really want to mess with Ephesians 2:10 ?
Was it John in his epistle letter that said our confession of sin gets us back into the salvation of God when we mess up ?
Paul said as much about repentance as he did grace to be saved.
Actually he said more about repentance than he did grace to be saved.
While this is true I'm not saying grace only is salvation.
Just saying grace + repentance = salvation if Paul a grace and repentance preacher on salvation too.
Only way to do mess up an understanding on that is to overlook Ephesians 2:10, Mark 16:16, etc.
Truths of the bible aren't put there to overlook other truths of the bible.
All truth on salvation is all the bible on salvation.
Otherwise we phony if we despise 2 Timothy 3:16 and run off with Ephesians 2:8 like a quick scholar so easy.
Just need a big shot celebrity and intellectual to influence you to do this.
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So do I understand that you believe that you must do more than put your trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross and His resurrection 1Cor 15:1-4 for your salvation? If we are saved by "grace through faith" that means I put my faith in the grace of God. Not in any work I could ever do' date=' if Christ did the work for me.[/quote']

Tony,
Why is it you never answer the specific questions posed and always run to the same scriptures?
Here are a few other questions I have always wanted answered by someone who believes like you. But they never answer, maybe you will.
How many sins must someone commit before he looses his salvation?
Must they get saved again?
Does he have need to be baptized again?
Which sin causes me to loose my salvation?

Thank you ahead of time for your answers
Bro Dave
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I believe that I can answer the questions:

How many sins must someone commit before he looses his salvation? One will do it.

Must they get saved again? Only repent and your back in, if you don?t die or Jesus comes before you do.

Does he have need to be baptized again? No. Just repent, but if you feel to, then do it.

Which sin causes me to loose my salvation? Telling a lie, Rev. 21:8

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I believe that I can answer the questions:

How many sins must someone commit before he looses his salvation? One will do it.

Must they get saved again? Only repent and your back in, if you don?t die or Jesus comes before you do.

Does he have need to be baptized again? No. Just repent, but if you feel to, then do it.

Which sin causes me to loose my salvation? Telling a lie, Rev. 21:8

(John 10:28-29) - "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. {29} My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
An interesting thought came to me when I was thinking about losing your salvation...

These verses tell us that, when we are saved, Christ has us in His hand. Thus, if you can "lose your salvation" you are overpowering God, and wriggling out of His hand.

It's something to think about.
God bless,
Crushmaster.
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The previous post was - These verses tell us that, when we are saved, Christ has us in His hand. Thus, if you can "lose your salvation" you are overpowering God, and wriggling out of His hand.

I don't know too much about the Bible, but I heard that explained one time. No one can take you out of God's hand but you can take yourself out i guess by wriggling. Did the bible say somewhere that we can keep on sinning until we have searred (sp) our concience with a hot iron. (something like that)

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No one can take you out of God's hand but you can take yourself out i guess by wriggling.


Wouldn't that mean that the blood of Christ was not enough to cover your sin of "wriggling"?

Can you not see that nothing is more powerful than the blood of Christ? Once you are saved it is enough to cover all sin...

1st Peter among other passages proves that the Christian can't "wriggle out".

I will quote quite a bit here so the context is plain.

"1st Peter 13-23 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

We see from this passage that the saved person is a son of God(many other passages teach this as well). We also see that the reason we should not sin after salvation is based on two things, one, because the father is just and will judge us according to our work(this judgment can't mean for our salvation because other passages clearly state that salvation is not of our works, so rather it refers to the chastening the father gives his children) and two, out of respect for the blood of Christ. Why should we do that which Christ died to save us from? Finally, that passage says we are born again of "incorruptible" seed, meaning we cannot die spiritually speaking. Christ said that "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" If we can loose salvation that would not be true.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Good post Seth

Lovejoy read john 10:28-29 again

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. J
oh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No man and any man, includes you the individual. You cant take yourself out of God's Hand, even if you wanted to.

Also Ephsians 1:12-13 says

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus is the only one who can break the seal and he assured us in John 10:28-29 he would not do that.

Salvation is free, final, and forever to all who will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and call upon him to save them Romans 10:9-13

God Bless

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Most of the time, it is hard to turn your back against God after accepting his gift of salvation. People who accept it understand who God is and what they are (a sinner). Kinda like how once you love your child, it's hard to stop loving him (although it is easy to be disappointed in him) .

But those who have turned their back against God has never really fully grasp the gift of salvation. That's why it seem like some people just stop being a christian. I always felt they accepted his gift for the wrong reason. In my MIL's case, she thought accepting Christ would promise her a better life. But it didn't. She didn't have relationship with God. So she turned her back against him. I'll never know if she is really saved or not because she DID accepted the gift of salvation one time. I know some people who ARE saved, and lived a backslidden life.. and they seem what people would refer as "have all the bad luck". in my MIL's case, it was result of another's person sinful way that hurt her faith. I told my son one time that we can pray for protection but everyone still has to make the right decision to do right or wrong.. including the bad guys and including himself. So that if someone decide to hurt him and he pray about it, don't let it cause him to lose faith in God. That God (if he choose to do so) will try to convince the person to do the right thing but he will not control a person like a puppet. That person still have to make his decision. But then sometimes God help put an end to an abuse by putting them in Jail or something. But My MIL never really saw it that way. She wanted God to control the bad person that hurt her like a puppet so she could have a better life (and believe it or not, she does have better life today). But it didn't happen her way so she just stop believing in God. Well, she stopped believing in Christianity because she doesn't like people telling her how she should live her life. Sorry about rambling and hijacking. but I noticed these are the few that make people lose faith in God or make them turn their back on God that make them seem like they stop being a christian.

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Okay, I think I understand what has been stated here. After I think that i am saved and believe that i am. It doesn't matter what i do from now on until the end of the world. I can go to a bar and dance, may be kill someone don't go back to church never pray and i will be saved. because no one or myself can take me out of the hand of God.

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Okay' date=' I think I understand what has been stated here. After I think that i am saved and believe that i am. It doesn't matter what i do from now on until the end of the world. I can go to a bar and dance, may be kill someone don't go back to church never pray and i will be saved. because no one or myself can take me out of the hand of God.[/quote']
You appear to be saying that sarcastically, at least to my understanding. If you are not, however, please disregard what I wrote below:
You're committing the strawman fallacy, and terribly exaggerating our point. The fact of the matter is this: The Lord has given us eternal life. Eternal means just that: eternal.

And, yes, if you did do that, you would still be saved (though I find it hard to believe that a Christian would do that). I am reminded of this passage of Scripture:
(1 Corinthians 3:9-15) - "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. {10} According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. {11} For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. {12} Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; {13} Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. {14} If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. {15} If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

While you yourself would be saved, your building would be tried with fire, and it would burn. You would receive no crowns to throw at the feet of our Almighty God.
However, you would yourself be saved, yet so as by fire. Why?
(John 10:28) - "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

Regardless of what we build upon it, if we have indeed trusted in Christ as our personal Savior, and repented of our sins, Jesus is our foundation, and it will stand no matter what.
God bless,
Crushmaster.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Once a church of Christ preacher told me, "If I believe as you Baptist do I would go out and do everything I really wanted to."

I asked, "What are those things you really want to do."

He answered me with a puzzles look on his face, "You know, drink, chase women, stuff like that."

I them said, "I now know your problem, your not saved, if you would truly get saved you would not want to commit such vulgar & hideous sins against God the Father of your Savior."

Perhaps that is the problem with this poster, he has not been saved, so he is not been made into a new man.

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:a :amen: men: :amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen: Thank you soooo much for saying that--it's true atleast in my life. Of course temptations come around but we don't stand there we walk away with Jesus and if we fall we don't stay there because there is no joy! your sister in Christ--pixiedust

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:a :amen: men: :amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen: Thank you soooo much for saying that--it's true atleast in my life. Of course temptations come around but we don't stand there we walk away with Jesus and if we fall we don't stay there because there is no joy! your sister in Christ--pixiedust


Thank you, you made this thought come to my mind. If it were not so late I think I could find scriptures to go with it.

One way of telling if one is saved or not, if they sin, they will feel guilty for having done so, and I believe they will feel ashamed as well. After all the saved person does have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them and when we sin that will grieve the Holy Spirit that is within us.
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Okay' date=' I think I understand what has been stated here. After I think that i am saved and believe that i am. It doesn't matter what i do from now on until the end of the world. I can go to a bar and dance, may be kill someone don't go back to church never pray and i will be saved. because no one or myself can take me out of the hand of God.[/quote']

If that's your mentality (not saying that it is), then you're clearly not saved. How do I know? Jesus said that a tree is known by its fruits (Matt. 7:16-17) There are too many people in churches today walking down an aisle and repeating the words of a pastor thinking they're saved. The majority of them are probably on their way to eternal damnation. This is the primary reason why there are SO many false converts in churches today....they are unregenerated and they have NEVER truly been born of God. This is not a matter of judging someone's heart, but rather them demonstrating by their deeds and actions that they have no godly sorrow or remorse towards sin...they are unrepentant and unregenerate and bear no fruits of the spirit. Their lifestyle will give proof to whether they have truly been born again. It's sad that many professed Christians are hellbound because they have walked down an aisle at church when they were 6 or 7 and now live a lifestyle of sin and carnality. Matthew 7:21-23 is a warning towards professing Christians, and the sad fact is that "MANY" professing Christians are in fact unsaved as that passage clearly says.

2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If Christ is in us, then we ought to walk as Christ walked. And as professed Christians, we should examine our lifestyle and see if it is aligned with how the Word of God dictates how we should live.

Love,
Madeline
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Thank you, you made this thought come to my mind. If it were not so late I think I could find scriptures to go with it.

One way of telling if one is saved or not, if they sin, they will feel guilty for having done so, and I believe they will feel ashamed as well. After all the saved person does have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them and when we sin that will grieve the Holy Spirit that is within us.

That is true to a point, but even some (or most) lost people feel guilty for sinning because of their conscience.
God bless,
Crushmaster.
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[quote="Crushmaster"][quote="Jerry80871852"][quote="pixiedust"]:a :amen: men: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: Thank you soooo much for saying that--it's true atleast in my life. Of course temptations come around but we don't stand there we walk away with Jesus and if we fall we don't stay there because there is no joy! your sister in Christ--pixiedust[/quote]

Thank you, you made this thought come to my mind. If it were not so late I think I could find scriptures to go with it.

One way of telling if one is saved or not, if they sin, they will feel guilty for having done so, and I believe they will feel ashamed as well. After all the saved person does have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them and when we sin that will grieve the Holy Spirit that is within us.[/quote]
That is true to a point, but even some (or most) lost people feel guilty for sinning because of their conscience.
God bless,
Crushmaster.[/quote]


True. God written in their heart.
There are alot of lost people who act alot better than christians. But then there is a lot who don't.

But they do sin against the Lord and say there is no God or have a different belief in a god.

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BUT the Lord said we will know them by their fruit so can a person be saved and remain in continual sin and not be chastised by the Lord? Doesn't He punish His children??? In love of course!--Pixiedust

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BUT the Lord said we will know them by their fruit so can a person be saved and remain in continual sin and not be chastised by the Lord? Doesn't He punish His children??? In love of course!--Pixiedust

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Its difficult to judge a person being saved or not, something that we just cannot disceran for sure. Its something we have to leave to Jesus and we can be assured He can read that persons heart and know what is in it.

There was a time, when if we had witness David's life during a certain time period, I feel sure we would have thought that David was not a man after God's heart, for he was invloved is an affair with Bathsheba, them had her husband murdered, them tried to cover it all up. One thing he did do, when he was approached about this, he repented and was very sorry for what he had done.

Seems that many times when we approach someone becasue of their back slidden condition, that can happen and does not mean they are lost, instead of having convictions becasue of their sin, they get mad and very defensive, to me that is a sign they care not about God nor His way. Seems if they did, they would be repenant and want nothing but forgivness from God as David did.


19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1 John 2:19 (KJV)



It semes to appear, if they go competely out from us, and do not come back, they were never of us.

And as you mentioned, the child of God when living in sin will get chasteing from God, if they stay in this sin, refuse to repent, and if it gets bad enough they could bring the sin unto death upon their self.

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Heb 12:5-9 (KJV)

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1 John 5:16 (KJV)

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