Pondering Exodus 16:2-15

[trapperhoney]

So, I looked for a forum listing for posting pondering on Bible reading, and didn't really see anything, so I guess I'll put it here. Due to lockdowns we missed quite a few Sunday School lessons and I've been working through them on my own. I would be interested in your thoughts on my thoughts, lol.

Reading Exodus 16:2-15

The first thing I noticed is that they are in the wilderness. Typically when someone is in the wilderness there is some trial, testing and preparation taking place. Jesus went into the wilderness after his baptism before beginning his ministry (Luke 4:1-21)

In verse 4 the Lord says, "that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law or no."  Prove means to test, and in our minds test means to find out what someone knows or will do, but God already knows what they will do, the point is to reveal to them what they will do.

Verse 8 "your murmurings are not against us, but against the Lord." this brought to mind 1 Samuel 8:7b where the Lord tells Samuel that Israel's insistence on having a king is not a rejection of him, but of the Lord. Also, in 1 Corinthians 10:10-11 Paul warns against murmuring citing the illustration of Israel's murmuring and being destroyed by the destroyer.

Verses 13-14, "and in the morning the dew lay round about the host. And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground."  So, I was wondering, is the dew a picture of the Holy Spirit? The dew came before the manna. It is unclear whether the dew turned into the manna. But without the Spirit you cannot receive Christ, you cannot recognize him, so it seems like a correlation to me. (John 15:26, 16:7-15, 1 Corinthians 2:10-14)  Also, the fact that this happened each morning, in the morning, brought to mind the Lord's teaching on prayer where he says, "Give us this day our daily bread." (Matthew 6:11) I should start my day, each day, in the morning, feasting on the Word.

In verse 15, "This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat." Immediately reminds me of the Last Supper (Luke 22:19, Mark 14:22, Matthew 26:26), and of Christ's comments about his body, that his flesh divides (John 6:30-71)

So, just some thoughts, maybe disjointed, not completely fleshed out, but what I took from the passage on my first reading.

 

[SureWord]

Interesting thought about the dew. I like it. Duet. 32:1,2 the dew is a type of the word of God. So, I like your direction on this. 

Also, reading the bible or having a devotion in the early morning always seems to have more of an impact on me. Like dew before the manna in the morning.

Edited August 20, 2021 by SureWord

[trapperhoney]

yes, indeed! Thank you for the Deuteronomy reference, I will certainly look into it! I appreciate your input.

[trapperhoney]

So, I decided to look up all verses with the word "dew" in them. The first few in the Bible are interesting:

(Gen 27:28)  Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

(Gen 27:39)  And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;

(Exo 16:13)  And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.

(Exo 16:14)  And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.

(Num 11:9)  And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.

(Deu 32:2)  My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

(Deu 33:13)  And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,

(Deu 33:28)  Israel then shall dwell in safety alone: the fountain of Jacob shall be upon a land of corn and wine; also his heavens shall drop down dew.
 

I don't remember ever seeing the two in Genesis before. I know I've read them because I've read the book of Genesis several times, but these verses never stood out to me, and then they are "recapped" in Deuteronomy 33:28. Will have to look closer at this!

[SureWord]

The dew came before the manna. I sure there's a good devotional there.

[trapperhoney]

14 hours ago, SureWord said:

The dew came before the manna. I sure there's a good devotional there.

yes, indeed!

[Oseas]

Hello, I'm newbie here. I'm from Brazil. It's a joy to share with all of you about the Word of GOD.  The Word is GOD. 

One of the beautiful dialogues between JESUS and the Jews was about manna. John 6:v.24 to 51 - a wonderful dialogue -

 

²⁴ When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus.

²⁵ And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?

²⁶ Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

²⁷ Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

²⁸ Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

²⁹ Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

³⁰ They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

³¹ Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

³² Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

³³ For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

³⁴ Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

³⁵ And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

³⁶ But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

³⁷ All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

³⁸ For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

³⁹ And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

⁴⁰ And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

⁴¹ The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

⁴² And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

⁴³ Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

⁴⁴ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

⁴⁵ It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

⁴⁶ Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

⁴⁷ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

⁴⁸ I am that bread of life.

⁴⁹ Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

⁵⁰ This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

⁵¹ I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

[trapperhoney]

Thank you. I did reference this passage in my original post, though not all the verses you have shared. It is certainly important.

[Oseas]

7 hours ago, trapperhoney said:

Thank you. I did reference this passage in my original post, though not all the verses you have shared. It is certainly important.

You are welcome. Yes, you scored John 6:v.30 to 71 in your original post, and I shared quoting a part of this preaching by JESUS, my point was to highlight that material things are pictures of spiritual things, JESUS' parables are good examples.

Desert is desert, there is nothing but nothing. Feeding all that crowd in the desert was impossible, except for our Almighty God. God does not work miracles. He makes happen. By faith, Moses was certain that God would provide the food needed by the people in that wilderness.

God materially fed that crowd in the desert, on the other hand that event was a wonderful sign of the Power of God in their works, enough to awaken faith in their hearts, which is a gift from God, unfortunately they felt nothing despite the greatness from the work of God feeding them in the wilderness, I mean spiritually they were dead with rare exceptions.  In fact, it is like the letter of the Scriptures, the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. JESUS highlighted this to the Jews, saying: John 6:v.26 :

26 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 - The Jews said: What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 - Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

The Jews wanted to see a signal from JESUS:

30 - They said therefore unto JESUS: What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 - Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 - Then Jesus said unto them: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 - For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

It seems that the Jews began to understand the language of JESUS:

34 - Then said they unto JESUS, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 -  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.36 -But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me,and believe not.(in spite JESUS's miracles) 

37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,  but should raise it up again at the last Day. (Note: This Day arrived: Hosea 6:v.2-3 combined with John 2:v.18-19.  Let's stay awake.) 40 - And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last Day.   (Be careful and get ready)

41 - The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

God bless

[trapperhoney]

This passage is important in showing what man is really like. They asked Jesus for a sign to prove what he said, but they had already seen a sign -- the feeding of the crowd. What they really wanted was for him to go it again, to provide more free food for them, or something even bigger. They were fixated on their physical needs/desires and completely missing the spiritual implications of what he was telling them. This is frequently true of us when reading scripture.

Right now I'm working on the the "dew" of the Exodus passage and the possibility of it being a picture of the Spirit, especially in light of the Spirit and receiving Christ. Attempting to work through it methodically.

[Martyr_4_FutureJoy]

On 8/19/2021 at 9:43 AM, trapperhoney said:

n verse 4 the Lord says, "that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law or no."  Prove means to test, and in our minds test means to find out what someone knows or will do, but God already knows what they will do, the point is to reveal to them what they will do.

When some were tested,  in the wilderness,  they were afterwards rejected,  not for what they knew or did not know, but for who they trusted,  who they served,  (and Who they rebelled against).

Same today.

[Oseas]

5 hours ago, trapperhoney said:

Right now I'm working on the the "dew" of the Exodus passage and the possibility of it being a picture of the Spirit, especially in light of the Spirit and receiving Christ. Attempting to work through it methodically.

That's so good and important.  Below I quote some biblical verses about the "dew" for your meditation and interpretation, as follow:

Isaiah 26:v.19
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Psalm 133
1Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; and
3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

Proverbs 19:v.12
12 The king's wrath is as the roaring of a lion; but his favour is as dew upon the grass.

Genesis 27:v.26 to 29
26 And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son.

27 And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed:

28 Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

29 Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.
 

5 hours ago, trapperhoney said:

This passage is important in showing what man is really like. They asked Jesus for a sign to prove what he said, but they had already seen a sign -- the feeding of the crowd. What they really wanted was for him to go it again, to provide more free food for them, or something even bigger. They were fixated on their physical needs/desires and completely missing the spiritual implications of what he was telling them. This is frequently true of us when reading scripture.

Today is not different,  they continue "fixated on their physical needs/desires and completely missing the spiritual implications" between Israel and GOD, mainly the warns of GOD by His Word, telling to them how the final punishments will severe be, it because in the current time Israel is full of idolatry and witchcraft, and dominated by the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism. This devilish religious system explains why the great city, the city of Jerusalem, is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt-Revelation 11:v.8.

Now, even now, GOD will send them strong delusion that they believe a lie, believe in the false messiah as said JESUS-John 5:v.43-in fact AN IMPOSTER-, "that they should believe a lie: That they all might be DAMNED who believed not the truth(believed not in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness.2 Thes.2:v.11-12

May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection

Amen

Edited August 28, 2021 by Oseas

[trapperhoney]

Continuting my research into "DEW"

(Jdg 6:37)  Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said.

(Jdg 6:38)  And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water.

(Jdg 6:39)  And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.
 

Here dew was used as a "test" to assure Gideon of God's instructions. So far, from the verses I've read it appears that the dew was considered to be "sent" by God, as well as rain. The people didn't understand the science behind clouds, air pressure, temperature etc. that we now know about which contribute to the formation of these things. But God designed all that, and He can still prevent those things if the conditions are right. Something we tend to forget. But these verses seem to indicate that the arrival of dew was seen as coming from God, which may explain the phrase "dew of heaven."

 

[farouk]

9 hours ago, trapperhoney said:

Continuting my research into "DEW"

(Jdg 6:37)  Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said.

(Jdg 6:38)  And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water.

(Jdg 6:39)  And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.
 

Here dew was used as a "test" to assure Gideon of God's instructions. So far, from the verses I've read it appears that the dew was considered to be "sent" by God, as well as rain. The people didn't understand the science behind clouds, air pressure, temperature etc. that we now know about which contribute to the formation of these things. But God designed all that, and He can still prevent those things if the conditions are right. Something we tend to forget. But these verses seem to indicate that the arrival of dew was seen as coming from God, which may explain the phrase "dew of heaven."

 

Hi @trapperhoneyI've heard the term, using the fleece, to refer generally to persistent prayerful enquiry of God as to His will about specific matters...

[trapperhoney]

15 hours ago, farouk said:

Hi @trapperhoneyI've heard the term, using the fleece, to refer generally to persistent prayerful enquiry of God as to His will about specific matters...

I have also used the term, but in reference to asking God to give one a sign to confirm something, much like Gideon did.