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What Books Are You Reading?

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I didn’t say you had to be - but coming on a Baptist board and then speaking against Baptists is called sowing discord. If you think Baptists are way off, then other boards would probably be more your style. Just my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Jerry said:

I didn’t say you had to be - but coming on a Baptist board and then speaking against Baptists is called sowing discord. If you think Baptists are way off, then other boards would probably be more your style. Just my opinion.

Who said Baptists are way off?

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10 hours ago, Jerry said:

Again, Tony, being Baptist or not Baptist is not the issue. If someone - especially an emerging church leader - denies the fundamentals of the faith, then they are not saved and you are deceiving yourself if you think you will glean spiritual TRUTH from him (and you may be telling on yourself by your continued choice of poisoned spiritual food). Don’t be fooled, your spiritual diet will affect you, and I do believe it is becoming more and more evident as you buck and kick when someone points to the Bible and compares certain authors and their teaching with it, and you get annoyed with the person presenting the truth while clinging to the heresy.

 

I'm far from "deceiving myself." Again, HYPER=fundamentalist hogwash! As I've stated, I know how to distinguish between the good and bad/misled points of doctrine a person holds. You seem like you want to play the part ot the Holy Ghost. Maybe you should leave that to HIM. Dr. Evans has written a lot of good material, preached many great, theologically sound messages, been in the ministry for over 40 years. I don't see him as an "emerging church" leader. Nobody is going to agree with Baptists on every single point of doctrine, but it doesn't make them wrong. Maybe you need to stop and consider that before you start throwing around accusation and castin aspersions on a persons character and salvation.

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On 7/25/2021 at 6:36 AM, Bouncing Bill said:

 

The laity are the hope for Christianity in America.   

I hate to say it, but I doubt this is true. The Bible says not to rely on the arm of flesh....We are to rely on Christ and his promise that nothing will prevail against the church he has founded. The Gates of Hell will not prevail against it! BB, it seems you put a lot of trust in man when God is the one who should be trusted.

6 hours ago, Jerry said:

I didn’t say you had to be - but coming on a Baptist board and then speaking against Baptists is called sowing discord. If you think Baptists are way off, then other boards would probably be more your style. Just my opinion.

Who are you referring to as a "non-Baptist?" You really need to be more clear about to whom you are speaking.

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14 hours ago, Jerry said:

Read The Cost Of Discipleship. He plainly states throughout the book in various places that you are saved IF you persevere until the end (may not have exact wording) - ie. that if you earn it or maintain works/persevere until you die then you are saved. That is not the Gospel of salvation we find in the Bible.

Also, if someone does not believe in salvation by grace through faith ALONE in Christ’s finish work on the cross of Calvary, then he is not saved and any “spiritual” advice he may give you is dangerous and untrustworthy.

 

Matthew 24:13...But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

You sure you're not taking what Willard said out of context? I don't know because I haven't read that particular book. But, I do know that many people in the Baptist faith put connotations to things they don't like and try to make a doctrine out of it, or use it to slander another brother/sister. Of course, this happens in every denomination...but I can only speak of the ones that I have had experience with.

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On 8/18/2021 at 7:11 PM, Jerry said:

 

Bonhoeffner believed in and taught a works-based salvation (especially in The Cost Of Discipleship - ie. continuing to the end to BE saved).

 

Please supply a quote from "The Cost of Discipleship" that supports saved by works. Thanks.

To me the most powerful quote from that book is:

“Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock. Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: 'Ye were bought at a price', and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God.”
 Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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On 8/18/2021 at 7:11 PM, Jerry said:

 

Bonhoeffner believed in and taught a works-based salvation (especially in The Cost Of Discipleship - ie. continuing to the end to BE saved).

 

Please supply a quote from "The Cost of Discipleship" that supports saved by works. Thanks.

To me there are a number of powerful quote in "The Cost of Discipleship." Two examples are:

“Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock. Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: 'Ye were bought at a price', and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God.”
 Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

“When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die.”
 Deitrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

 

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8 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Please supply a quote from "The Cost of Discipleship" that supports saved by works. Thanks.

To me there are a number of powerful quote in "The Cost of Discipleship." Two examples are:

“Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock. Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: 'Ye were bought at a price', and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God.”
 Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

“When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die.”
 Deitrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

 

Bonhoeffer has a lot of good material. I'll have to agree with you on that, BB. I haven't read a full book from him, just excerpts, but I like most of what I've read.

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4 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Bonhoeffer has a lot of good material. I'll have to agree with you on that, BB. I haven't read a full book from him, just excerpts, but I like most of what I've read.

BT, "The Cost of Discipleship" had a big impact on my life as a Christian. 

In 1930 he spent a year studying at the Union Theological Seminary in New York City. During that year he attended the Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem. It was there he was introduced to the concepts that led him to see the rising Hitler as an evil to be opposed. There is an excellent book on this era of his life by Reggie Williams.  Don't let the title put you off. The publisher insisted on the title which is "Bonhoeffer's Black Jesus." The book explains how Bonhoeffer's theology was influenced by the year he attended the Abyssinian Baptist Church which led to his returning to Germany and opposing Hitler. 

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21 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

BT, "The Cost of Discipleship" had a big impact on my life as a Christian. 

In 1930 he spent a year studying at the Union Theological Seminary in New York City. During that year he attended the Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem. It was there he was introduced to the concepts that led him to see the rising Hitler as an evil to be opposed. There is an excellent book on this era of his life by Reggie Williams.  Don't let the title put you off. The publisher insisted on the title which is "Bonhoeffer's Black Jesus." The book explains how Bonhoeffer's theology was influenced by the year he attended the Abyssinian Baptist Church which led to his returning to Germany and opposing Hitler. 

Oh, the name of the book wouldn't turn me off. I have an African American great niece, and there are others in my family who are AA. I'm from a very diverse family...Jewish, AA, American Indian, Irish, Spanish, and Italian. My adoptive father's family was from Germany way back in the 1500's and 1600s. I used to go to a predominantly black church in Peoria for a few months in the 80s.

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7 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Oh, the name of the book wouldn't turn me off. I have an African American great niece, and there are others in my family who are AA. I'm from a very diverse family...Jewish, AA, American Indian, Irish, Spanish, and Italian. My adoptive father's family was from Germany way back in the 1500's and 1600s. I used to go to a predominantly black church in Peoria for a few months in the 80s.

The author did not like the title, but he had no control over that aspect of the book. Reggie is an African American who earned his Ph.D. at Fuller Theological Seminary. I indexed the book for him. At the Baptist church in Harlem was where Bonhoeffer was introduced to the 'suffering Jesus' and how an oppressed people respond to Him. This turned Bonhoeffer's theology, seemingly, 180 degrees. The book, The Cost of Discipleship, was published in 1937. I believe Bonhoeffer's statement "Salvation is free, but discipleship will cost you your life." When he wrote that I do not know if he was thinking of our physical life or our personal, selfish life. I tend to think the latter. For Bonhoeffer it turned out to be both, personal and physical life. 

Another line that shook me and influenced my life is:

Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.

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The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.                                                                                               - Johann Sebastian Bach

"Every Good Gift is From Above" 

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning. 

(every book, every song, every message,  from above,  is good) 

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