Baptism

[Baptistsenior]

The Bible says there is 'one Lord, one faith, and one baptism.     Which Baptism is for today? 

[Martyr_4_FutureJoy]

How many immersions are there in Scripture ?   Historically(Only Biblically, not other religions) ?   In Jewish Righteous Life ?

Is being ,  living,  in union with the Father and the Son considered a result or a consequence or a part of immersion in Jesus' Name ?   Without such union,   is anything else true in life ?

What changes in a man's life happen in any of the immersions ?

[SureWord]

31 minutes ago, Baptistsenior said:

The Bible says there is 'one Lord, one faith, and one baptism.     Which Baptism is for today? 

Technically, there's more than one baptism.

The "one baptism" Paul is referring to in Ephesians 4:5 would be a spiritual baptism, i.e. a union with the body of Christ through the Spirit. The context tells us that.

I know some overzealous Baptists  will have the "body" of Ephesian 4:4 being a local Baptist assembly and the baptism of vs. 5 being submerged under water to join his "body" but all kinds of issues pop up when you take that position including having to be re-baptize every time you join a local Baptist church. Some Christians have experienced this.

[Baptistsenior]

17 hours ago, SureWord said:

Technically, there's more than one baptism.

The "one baptism" Paul is referring to in Ephesians 4:5 would be a spiritual baptism, i.e. a union with the body of Christ through the Spirit. The context tells us that.

I know some overzealous Baptists  will have the "body" of Ephesian 4:4 being a local Baptist assembly and the baptism of vs. 5 being submerged under water to join his "body" but all kinds of issues pop up when you take that position including having to be re-baptize every time you join a local Baptist church. Some Christians have experienced this.

I've always been taught that it's just testimonial.  If Christ was talkig about spiritual baptism then  why would Christ give the church baptism as an ordinance, and why would we conclude it was water baptism? 

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, Baptistsenior said:

I've always been taught that it's just testimonial.  If Christ was talkig about spiritual baptism then  why would Christ give the church baptism as an ordinance, and why would we conclude it was water baptism? 

Personally I believe it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit we receive when we're converted. We receive this baptism the moment we're saved, and it seals us until the day of our homegoing or the rapture. Water baptism was given as an outward sign of an inward change and is one of the two ordinances of the church. It's not the "baptism" spoken of in this text.

[Martyr_4_FutureJoy]

  

3 hours ago, Baptistsenior said:

I've always been taught that it's just testimonial.  If Christ was talkig about spiritual baptism then  why would Christ give the church baptism as an ordinance, and why would we conclude it was water baptism? 

The complete history whole story of immersion as an ordinance was not given by Christ to anyone, ever,  at least not the known rome or protestant teachings/ groups.

Who is "we" ,  or who supposedly concluded something not given by Christ was from Him and was water 'baptism' ? 

Back maybe to the origin of the questions/ thoughts about this from the quoted post:   "I've always been taught" .    Taught by who ?     This may be the very very most most important question for everyone.

Edited July 15, 2021 by jeff_student_of_Jesus
clarity

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

  

The complete history whole story of immersion as an ordinance was not given by Christ to anyone, ever,  at least not the known rome or protestant teachings/ groups.

Who is "we" ,  or who supposedly concluded something not given by Christ was from Him and was water 'baptism' ? 

Back maybe to the origin of the questions/ thoughts about this from the quoted post:   "I've always been taught" .    Taught by who ?     This may be the very very most most important question for everyone.

Christ may not have directly given church the ordinance of baptism at the time of the Last Supper, but, I believe he instituted it by exmple when he himself was baptized by John, and when he commanded it in Matthew 28:18-20. This may not be a popular stance, but it was commanded by Christ. So, with that command, and the Lord's Supper being instituted before his death, burial, and ressurection, he indeed DID institute it for his church. 

Still, I don't believe that the "one baptism" spoken of in the OP is that of water baptism. IMHO, it's the spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit that we receive the minute we accept Christ. 

[BrotherTony]

Addendum to the previous post....I could be mistaken. I'll have to look at my commentaries. Sorry for any confusion.   I tried to edit the previous post, but the computer and the server on my end is acting strangely. 

[Martyr_4_FutureJoy]

As Christ taught and trained His disciples,  there is no argument there.

But the things developed contrary to His Word,  the ordances and everything else that came from the leavened lump He warned about,  are not from Christ, ever.

[BrotherTony]

32 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

As Christ taught and trained His disciples,  there is no argument there.

But the things developed contrary to His Word,  the ordances and everything else that came from the leavened lump He warned about,  are not from Christ, ever.

How do you get that the ordinances came from the leavened bread? Christ set out the first ordinance at the Last Supper. The second was shown by example at Christ's baptism by John the Baptist, and then confirmed when he gave the Great Commission to the apostles in Matthew 28:18-20. I don't see any leaven there. Also, could you please make your statements in a way that isn't so fragmented? It's really hard to understand your point when you put some of your points the way you do. Thanks.

[Baptistsenior]

17 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Personally I believe it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit we receive when we're converted. We receive this baptism the moment we're saved, and it seals us until the day of our homegoing or the rapture. Water baptism was given as an outward sign of an inward change and is one of the two ordinances of the church. It's not the "baptism" spoken of in this text.

Then we are back to two different baptisms   confusing

[Baptistsenior]

16 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

  

The complete history whole story of immersion as an ordinance was not given by Christ to anyone, ever,  at least not the known rome or protestant teachings/ groups.

Who is "we" ,  or who supposedly concluded something not given by Christ was from Him and was water 'baptism' ? 

Back maybe to the origin of the questions/ thoughts about this from the quoted post:   "I've always been taught" .    Taught by who ?     This may be the very very most most important question for everyone.

taught by every Baptist church and Baptist teacher I've ever sat under or read 

[Martyr_4_FutureJoy]

49 minutes ago, Baptistsenior said:

taught by every Baptist church and Baptist teacher I've ever sat under or read 

Do the consequences explain the source ,  or the source explain the consequences ?

How do they explain the confusion ?

Do you think the Anabaptists originally ,  living as the first century Ekklesia did,  in truth and in power that turned cities over,

lived with the great confusion seen in today's churches ?

Or even the first century Ekklesia, the assembly in Ephesus or Thessalonica or Philipi ,

of who it was written (gone to get excerpts) :   from Ephesians, Thessalonians and Philippians.

 

Ephesians 3:16-21

King James Version

 

¹⁶ That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

¹⁷ That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

¹⁸ May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

¹⁹ And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

²⁰ Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

²¹ Unto him be glory in the church(Ekklesia) by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen

 

Philippians 1:1-11

King James Version

1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,

4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,

5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.

9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

===========================

1 Thessalonians 1:7-10

King James Version

7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by jeff_student_of_Jesus
Add Philippians Portion, and Thessalonians Part

[Baptistsenior]

40 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Do the consequences explain the source ,  or the source explain the consequences ?

How do they explain the confusion ?

Do you think the Anabaptists originally ,  living as the first century Ekklesia did,  in truth and in power that turned cities over,

lived with the great confusion seen in today's churches ?

Or even the first century Ekklesia, the assembly in Ephesus or Thessalonica or Philipi ,

of who it was written (gone to get excerpts) :   from Ephesians, Thessalonians and Philippians.

 

Ephesians 3:16-21

King James Version

 

¹⁶ That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

¹⁷ That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

¹⁸ May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

¹⁹ And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

²⁰ Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

²¹ Unto him be glory in the church(Ekklesia) by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen

 

Philippians 1:1-11

King James Version

1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,

4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,

5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.

9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

===========================

1 Thessalonians 1:7-10

King James Version

7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

 

were not the Anabaptist given that name because they rebaptized catholic converts?  thinking that was a water baptism 

[Martyr_4_FutureJoy]

1 minute ago, Baptistsenior said:

were not the Anabaptist given that name because they rebaptized catholic converts?  thinking that was a water baptism 

They lived as the first century believers/ assemblies did.    Anyone from anywhere who obeyed Jesus to receive new life, to be part of His Body on Earth, to be freed from the continual controling power(s) of the world,  was immersed in Yeshua's Name.

There have always been a few who lived right.   They've been called different names over the centuries.   Always martyrs.  Always dead to the world and the world dead to them.