Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Are there "Cult-like" groups of Baptists still alive and well out there?


Recommended Posts

  • Moderators
37 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

I think that you mentioned in post that no one has it figured out yet, or something like that.

I disagree,  and used that fella ,  John Baptist Henry as someone who does have (or did have, if he has passed away) it not only figured out,

but was able to state it clearly in his (or collaborated with others) blog(s).

The info in his blog(s) was an amazing and delightful surprise to find,  that I expected to see somewhere, somehow, for decades and did not see until it was in his blog (or a link from his blog/ related) .

Things that seem hard to understand are quite clear when seen correctly, and simple,  without twisting words and without stretching ideas - just plainforward straight and pure and true honesty,  in harmony perfectly and completely with all Scripture.

What I meant was, in context of sometimes being wrong in spiritual matters, that none of us have it all figured out yet. Like, there are biblical truths and things we can still learn, and none of us are above correction or challenging.

 

And if JB Henry did, indeed have it ALL figured out, well, I guess at some point he no longer needed to study his Bible. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Members

Definitely. Talking from Eastern Europe. We have tons of cults. Actually the main 'belief system' is Orthodoxy and everything else is considered 'cult'

However, it's extremely upsetting to say this, but MOST Baptist congregations in my country trust in their baptism rather than the finished atonement of our Redeemer. 

All people who are Baptist insist baptism is a necessary means for salvation.

They are basically the same as Orthodox but they think they 'have the right way'. One thing that always felt present in Orthodoxy while I was growing up was Christ appearing very weak. Even saints seemed more important, they would grant wishes if we were to request them. Orthodox people are obsessed with Mary, again Christ appearing so much weak and powerless.

But with these 'Baptists' in my country, Christ is also weak. You perform a ritual and only then you will be accepted. They say it's 'half-half'. Basically baptism + belief. Only with American Baptist I saw Christ as a King and powerful Being, the one that has the entire Glory but other belief system want man to have some glory as if any man would be worthy. 

Edited by Corinne
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
6 minutes ago, Corinne said:

Definitely. Talking from Eastern Europe. We have tons of cults. Actually the main 'belief system' is Orthodoxy and everything else is considered 'cult'

However, it's extremely upsetting to say this, but MOST Baptist congregations in my country trust in their baptism rather than the finished atonement of our Redeemer. 

All people who are Baptist insist baptism is a necessary means for salvation.

They are basically the same as Orthodox but they think they 'have the right way'. One thing that always felt present in Orthodoxy while I was growing up was Christ appearing very weak. Even saints seemed more important, they would grant wishes if we were to request them. Orthodox people are obsessed with Mary, again Christ appearing so much weak and powerless.

But with these 'Baptists' in my country, Christ is also weak. You perform a ritual and only then you will be accepted. They say it's 'half-half'. Basically baptism + belief. Only with American Baptist I saw Christ as the King and powerful Being, the one that has the entire Glory but other belief system want man to have some glory as if any man would be worthy. 

They aren't Baptists if they teach that baptism is necessary for salvation. Not even Freewill Baptist teach that.

Are you sure they don't mean that if you were really saved you would be baptized and if you don't get baptized then that means you are not saved?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
27 minutes ago, SureWord said:

They aren't Baptists if they teach that baptism is necessary for salvation. Not even Freewill Baptist teach that.

 

They've explained that being baptized is the only way to be accepted. 

I have relatives in many regions so I visit places and I've attended assemblies. All told me that it's always baptism + belief that saves. 

One assembly is affiliated with at least 15 other assemblies. I've attended a Baptist conference where people from various Baptist places came and gave speeches. Not one of them presented any plan of salvation during or after the meeting. Obviously, if you were to ask any attendees what does it mean to be saved, they would say 'baptism' or 'just be good' as replies.

The message got corrupted in my country. Pentecostals [which are more prevalent] have the same thinking: baptism + belief.

Only when I visited the UK, I've realized that there are Baptists who believe Christ is sufficient. American/Western Baptists are different in beliefs.

 

 

 

Edited by Corinne
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
55 minutes ago, Corinne said:

They've explained that being baptized is the only way to be accepted. 

I have relatives in many regions so I visit places and I've attended assemblies. All told me that it's always baptism + belief that saves. 

One assembly is affiliated with at least 15 other assemblies. I've attended a Baptist conference where people from various Baptist places came and gave speeches. Not one of them presented any plan of salvation during or after the meeting. Obviously, if you were to ask any attendees what does it mean to be saved, they would say 'baptism' or 'just be good' as replies.

The message got corrupted in my country. Pentecostals [which are more prevalent] have the same thinking: baptism + belief.

Only when I visited the UK, I've realized that there are Baptists who believe Christ is sufficient. American/Western Baptists are different in beliefs.

 

 

 

What you are describing are the Old Order German Baptist Brethren (Anabaptists) which would be Amish, Mennonites and Conservative Brethren here in America. There's a Conservative Brethren Church across the road from me. They believe in baptism as a necessity for salvation.

Here in America we don't consider them Baptists I think the only connection is in terminology. We both will re-baptize after a testimony of faith in Christ and also baptize by submersion.  Other than that Baptists here in America stem more from the Roger Williams lineage which is both Puritanism and Brownism, out of the Church of England.

Just a side note: The Pilgrims that came to America were not Puritans as many claim but were out of the Brownists Movement. The Puritans believed the CoE could be puried while the Brownists believed in separation from the CoE. The Puritans persecuted the Baptists here in America.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
On 6/10/2021 at 12:11 PM, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Rather,  since he has more revealed to him in Christ (i.e. not as if 'figured out', really)

then we can be as the Bereans and listen, test, and  verify all that is in line with Scripture.

Your wording is a little unclear, but my understanding is that you were saying that this fellow Supposedly has had more revealed to him ‘in Christ’ then we find in the Bible?

If that’s what you’re saying (and I apologize if I misunderstood), this is impossible.

“We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” 2 Peter 1:19-20

The ‘more sure word of prophecy’ spoken of here is the Bible.  this passage tells us that God‘s written Word is more sure than even Witnessing a face-to-face conversation between God and the patriarchs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
18 hours ago, Salyan said:

Your wording is a little unclear, but my understanding is that you were saying that this fellow Supposedly has had more revealed to him ‘in Christ’ then we find in the Bible?

No, not at all.

As someone else pointed out,  and I noted,  finding anyone "sound in doctrine" is a rare opportunity,  not many find. (perhaps because not many seek?)

Do you disagree that the messengers of the Creator revealed/ spoke of and wrote /

what the Creator revealed to them ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Your writing style is so hard to follow... ?

The Creator - God - reveals Himself to us in the Bible. When you speak of messengers, I don't know what or who you are speaking of. Many people say they are messengers of God, and that He has revealed special revelation to them, but they are lying false prophets. I would need to know what you define as messengers before I can agree or disagree.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Members
On 6/27/2021 at 12:46 PM, Corinne said:

They've explained that being baptized is the only way to be accepted. 

I have relatives in many regions so I visit places and I've attended assemblies. All told me that it's always baptism + belief that saves. 

One assembly is affiliated with at least 15 other assemblies. I've attended a Baptist conference where people from various Baptist places came and gave speeches. Not one of them presented any plan of salvation during or after the meeting. Obviously, if you were to ask any attendees what does it mean to be saved, they would say 'baptism' or 'just be good' as replies.

The message got corrupted in my country. Pentecostals [which are more prevalent] have the same thinking: baptism + belief.

Only when I visited the UK, I've realized that there are Baptists who believe Christ is sufficient. American/Western Baptists are different in beliefs.

Being "accepted" is not the point.  Well,  acceptable to God, yes.   Being accepted by a group though,  if it varies from God's Instructions,  then why ?   We always need to only seek God's Approval,  not man's approval,  as shown throughout all His Word.

Since His Word is Truth, and Is His Standard,  what He Says is Right.

It is not written whoever is baptised and believes is saved,  did you know that ?

Also, as Jesus asks at some time:  Why call Me Lord,  and not obey Me ?

And again,  Jesus says,  If you love Me,  keep My commandments.  Right ?   (love being a choice of the will,  a choice to honor and respect and obey God,  not a feeling or emotion,  in Scripture regarding Godliness)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
On 6/28/2021 at 10:53 AM, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

No, not at all.

As someone else pointed out,  and I noted,  finding anyone "sound in doctrine" is a rare opportunity,  not many find. (perhaps because not many seek?)

Do you disagree that the messengers of the Creator revealed/ spoke of and wrote /

what the Creator revealed to them ?

Your sentence structure is fragmented. Too many "quotation marks"/backslashes and (parenthesis), For Buddha's sake, please, use regular English sentence structure! ? Nothing against what you're trying to say, but would prefer you stop being so superfluous in words, and more to the point. Thanks. Now back on track to the OP.

Edited by BrotherTony
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Millions , maybe billions of idolators call on budhaha for help,  and budhaa can do nothing for them , ever.

They are confused, lost, mis-directed, and on the road to destruction.

Jesus is not confused, even with my writing structure or lack thereof.   (Delightfully!)

Any question on what anything I post means,  just ask for clarity specifically.  It's really not difficult.

Edited by jeff_student_of_Jesus
Didn't want merged.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Unfortunately, Jesus is not the person you were speaking to here. It’s only us, and we can’t read your mind.

Your response above, although slightly condescending, utilizes a much more straightforward sentence structure than usual.  We would be grateful if you could continue that trend. ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
8 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Millions , maybe billions of idolators call on budhaha for help,  and budhaa can do nothing for them , ever.

They are confused, lost, mis-directed, and on the road to destruction.

Jesus is not confused, even with my writing structure or lack thereof.   (Delightfully!)

Any question on what anything I post means,  just ask for clarity specifically.  It's really not difficult.

Jeff, I can usually understand the sentences, but sometimes I have to read the post three and four times with all those (-) and """" LOL! It could be because of my years doing term papers for other people. I usually required them to have plain, clear sentences, and then anything with the quotes and parenthesis at the bottom in the footnotes. Not really a complaint, but a suggestion and request of you. ? You're a good sport, friend. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...