The Gap Theory

[Hugh_Flower]

On 5/30/2021 at 5:07 AM, Bouncing Bill said:

Why would God create a being knowing that being would fall away from him?

Is is a very atheist minded Question. 

Redemption brings glory to him, and allows us to come to him and respect his glory from our own will.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Hugh_Flower

[Jerry]

On 5/30/2021 at 1:41 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

God love us enough to give us free will. He is not responsible when we use that free will to do wrong. In that way God limited himself just as he limited himself by never telling and will never tell a lie.

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

God is not limited by our sin. He has the wisdom and power to turn it all around and work it out for the good of those who love the Lord Jesus Christ. Of course, the primary good Romans 8:28-30 speaks of is conforming true believers to the image of Christ.

Psalms 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Psalm 78:41 says we limit God by our unbelief. We don’t limit His sovereignty or power, but hinder His work in and through us, and as the word signifies in Hebrew (according to Strong’s Concordance), we “grieve” Him by our sin/willful unbelief.

[Ukulelemike]

On 5/30/2021 at 12:56 PM, BrotherTony said:

Seems to me that your ideology is one that says God is only in control "part of the time," instead of "all of the time." Was God in control when Adam fell? Yes, He was. He hadn't given up His sovereignty over the Earth. He ALLOWED certain things to take place. He KNEW things would work out as they did. If He didn't have foreknowledge, he wouldn't be omniscient. And please, let's not try to turn this into a Calvinist, Arminian debate. I can and have argued both sides on the subject, and I won't reveal where I stand on it. That's between me and the Lord. Remember this also, Jesus Christ called 12 disciples. He even stated he called 12 disciples and one of them was a devil. He doesn't condone sin, but he knows that a fallen human nature will lead to mankind sinning. Let's also try to remember, this thread is on NONE of this...it is on supposed to be on "The Gap Theory!"

 

Sovereignty is an interesting word. Thrown around so much, yet the word is never found in the Bible anywhere. IS God sovereign? Absolutely? All events will culminate in the final place that God has declared, because to Him, it is already done. Does that mean we have no free will? Absolutely not, just HIS will stands above ours, works through and around and over ours to bring about His ultimate will. But we can still, in personal ways, resist His will. Notice:

Matt 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

Clearly here we see Man's will standing in opposition to God's will. God's will was to gather them, their will was to not be gathered, so they weren't gathered. Jesus came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but as a whole, with few individual exceptions, resisted Him. 

As well, God is not willing that ANY should perish but that all should come to repentance, yet all do not, and in fact, according to Jesus, FEW will ultimately come to Him. God isn't pleased with the death of the wicked, and calls to them to be forgiven, yet clearly they don't. 

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Sovereignty is an interesting word. Thrown around so much, yet the word is never found in the Bible anywhere. IS God sovereign? Absolutely? All events will culminate in the final place that God has declared, because to Him, it is already done. Does that mean we have no free will? Absolutely not, just HIS will stands above ours, works through and around and over ours to bring about His ultimate will. But we can still, in personal ways, resist His will. Notice:

Matt 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

Clearly here we see Man's will standing in opposition to God's will. God's will was to gather them, their will was to not be gathered, so they weren't gathered. Jesus came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but as a whole, with few individual exceptions, resisted Him. 

As well, God is not willing that ANY should perish but that all should come to repentance, yet all do not, and in fact, according to Jesus, FEW will ultimately come to Him. God isn't pleased with the death of the wicked, and calls to them to be forgiven, yet clearly they don't. 

Do any of the situations you mentioned negate God's sovereignty? I don't believe so. If they did, they would interfere with his omniscience. Just because he isn't willing that none should perish, but all should come to repentance doesn't mean they will. God ALLOWS things for his own glory. The Bible clearly tells us that God doesn't invent sin, yet, we find that He made the wicked for the day of judgement. I've had many time and again use that argument to try and prove that the Bible contradicts itself. Then I've had others that have said that God is "hands off" in his dealings with man. Really? Your reasoning here is somewhat like the exercise a professor in college gave us...explaining how many angels could fit on the head of a pin, and also answering the question, "Can God make a rock so big that even HE can't lift it?" You've got an interesting viewpoint, but not one I will argue for or against. I'm not going to let this thread become what I feel would be a Calvin Vs. Arminius debate. So, respectfully, have a nice day.

[Ukulelemike]

5 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Do any of the situations you mentioned negate God's sovereignty? I don't believe so. If they did, they would interfere with his omniscience. Just because he isn't willing that none should perish, but all should come to repentance doesn't mean they will. God ALLOWS things for his own glory. The Bible clearly tells us that God doesn't invent sin, yet, we find that He made the wicked for the day of judgement. I've had many time and again use that argument to try and prove that the Bible contradicts itself. Then I've had others that have said that God is "hands off" in his dealings with man. Really? Your reasoning here is somewhat like the exercise a professor in college gave us...explaining how many angels could fit on the head of a pin, and also answering the question, "Can God make a rock so big that even HE can't lift it?" You've got an interesting viewpoint, but not one I will argue for or against. I'm not going to let this thread become what I feel would be a Calvin Vs. Arminius debate. So, respectfully, have a nice day.

The very fact that God is not WILLING that any perish, tells me it is His WILL they don't perish. Since most WILL perish, that tells me His will can be resisted.

That HE has made the wicked for the day of evil, (not judgment), doesn't mean He created wicked men to be evil or be judged, it means that in His foreknowledge, He prepares those He knows to be wicked and will not repent, for the day of evil, which I suppose may refer to the time of judgment. That doesn't necessarily imply He created them for that end, He just knows that is their end, the predestination of God works through HIs foreknowledge of all events and decisions, knowing the end from the beginning. And yes, His ultimate will shall absolutely prevail.

 

[BrotherTony]

28 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

The very fact that God is not WILLING that any perish, tells me it is His WILL they don't perish. Since most WILL perish, that tells me His will can be resisted.

That HE has made the wicked for the day of evil, (not judgment), doesn't mean He created wicked men to be evil or be judged, it means that in His foreknowledge, He prepares those He knows to be wicked and will not repent, for the day of evil, which I suppose may refer to the time of judgment. That doesn't necessarily imply He created them for that end, He just knows that is their end, the predestination of God works through HIs foreknowledge of all events and decisions, knowing the end from the beginning. And yes, His ultimate will shall absolutely prevail.

 

Seems all you want is an argument. Moderator or not, you won't get it. If your objective here is to try to overrun me, feel free to try. You're wasting your time. This is my last post to you on this subject. Besides, this has gotten way off track. It's supposed to be on "The Gap Theory." Let's try to get back to that!

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by BrotherTony
REDIRECT

[Ukulelemike]

5 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Seems all you want is an argument. Moderator or not, you won't get it. If your objective here is to try to overrun me, feel free to try. You're wasting your time. This is my last post to you on this subject. Besides, this has gotten way off track. It's supposed to be on "The Gap Theory." Let's try to get back to that!

 

Not at all. However, I agree, we will drop it.

[Hugh_Flower]

I think you two where actually agreeing with one another...