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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

The Rapture in the Bible

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@jeff_student_of_Jesus Could you please expound on your following quote bellow from a status update reply from you?

Quote

Most worldly religious people on earth, in the world's largest religion(s),  do not agree with Scripture.  Their made up ideas of rapture were derived or gotten or repeated from someplace other than Scripture.   i.e. for those worldly people, or for those in error,  "caught up together" as Scripture says is not the same at all as their mistaken thoughts and doctrines and all the dogmas associated with their thoughts.

I guess I'm asking if the rapture is "made up"  from worldly people then please expound on the verses in the Bible that talks about the church meeting Christ in the Air?

I'm not concerned about the Word Rapture, but rather the Rapture principle. 

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Posted (edited)

This is a lot more confusing subject/ topic than I thought before the last 30 minutes.    Looking it up online,  to try and find what I was looking for resulted in finding nothing of what I was looking for - namely,  that I thought that some so-called 'principles' ,  most in fact,  were not from the followers of Jesus,  but from other religions, including Roman religion, before Jesus.

Now after searching for a half hour to an hour,  not finding what I sought,  I found more like these  (for examples only,  not for anything as if substantitive or to believe is truth from God nor from Scripture:

www . beliefnet . com / faiths/ christianity/what-youre-getting-wrong-about-the-rapture.aspx

beginningandend . com/ what-did-ancient-chrurch-f%thers-believe-about-the-rapture /        =======================================

Basically,  the world at large,  and over a billion in so-called (by name only) 'Christian' groups/churches/etc , 

have many "principles" not related to , not found in,  and not coming from either God or Scripture.

Those principles, truth, in and from Scripture,  all from God,  are found in only a few places (which did not turn up in the short time I searched).  

Thus, most earthlings find "other" voices to follow, to listen to, to believe, instead of Jesus and usually opposed to God and opposed to Scripture.

There is a lot of support for "other" principles in most people's lives, as they listen to , trust and rely on other voices/ family/ teachings that are popular and yet not found in Scripture.

I am not dedicated to one of the principles I found,  nor to any that is not directly in and from Scripture as revealed by the Father in heaven to all of His disciples, by Him.

 

Edited by jeff_student_of_Jesus
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2 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

This is a lot more confusing subject/ topic than I thought before the last 30 minutes.    Looking it up online,  to try and find what I was looking for resulted in finding nothing of what I was looking for - namely,  that I thought that some so-called 'principles' ,  most in fact,  were not from the followers of Jesus,  but from other religions, including Roman religion, before Jesus.

Can I encourage you to look at Scripture for you to get your doctrine? In my personal opinion, the Bible is all that I care about as that is my final authority, not google.

Thank you for the links and I appreciate the time you tool to reply. I guess I was more interested in what your thoughts were and not someone else.

Let's start with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. I'm curious to know what event you believe that is referring to, and why. Thank you, I'm currently doing a study on the end times so your input will be greatly appreciated.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

Can I encourage you to look at Scripture for you to get your doctrine? In my personal opinion, the Bible is all that I care about as that is my final authority, not google.

Thank you for the links and I appreciate the time you tool to reply. I guess I was more interested in what your thoughts were and not someone else.

"My thoughts" were that there are an abundance of false teachings/ doctrines about the term/word "rapture",  and then a multitude of associated false teachings and doctrines before, with, or after that, associated with it.

Ggle was never where I got (as if to learn, believe, or trust or follow) any doctrine, teaching , or authority.

Edited by jeff_student_of_Jesus
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Thank you for your reply. Like I mentioned in the earlier post I care more about what Scripture says than terminology, that's why I was interested in knowing what event you believe 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is talking about.

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It appears that if a label is attached,  it becomes more dividing or divisive instead of more edifying or uplifting.

However,  with these Scripture also: Philippians 3:20, Galatians 5:5, Hebrews 9:28, Romans 8:23, Romans 8:19, 2 Timothy 4:8, 1 Corinthians 1:7

I believe eagerly waiting for Jesus,

just as Simeon (King James Bible
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel )

and Anna (New King James Version
And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem. )

eagerly watching daily for Him Who Is The Redemption of Israel

is what all who are alive in Him are to do daily.

 

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My church is doing a week long revival with the topic of “prophecy”.  We have Brother Woodcock ( maybe some of you may know him) leading. We are premillennial pre tribulation church. 
 

With that being said, even while being hand held through this topic it is a difficult subject to grasp. So far my understanding is that rapture is the taking away in the air, and is at separate and before the the second coming.

I once was indoctrinated by Steven Anderson, and understood it horrible wrong. But it seems his ideas are no stranger from the history of the church, and it is actually an error that sprouts up like a weed through the church age. 
 

keeping tabs on this thread for further edification.

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I probably differ from most on this particular subject. Yes, I believe that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is referring to the second coming of Christ. But I also believe that the second coming is in two parts. The first is when he comes in the air and we rise to meet Him. But I see that there is a second part where he returns at a later date and His feet are planted on the Mount of Olives and the mount is divided.

Zechariah 14:4 (KJV) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

I could be wrong and this may refer to this happening on the same day at a different time, but it would still be His second coning in two parts.

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6 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I probably differ from most on this particular subject. Yes, I believe that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is referring to the second coming of Christ. But I also believe that the second coming is in two parts. The first is when he comes in the air and we rise to meet Him. But I see that there is a second part where he returns at a later date and His feet are planted on the Mount of Olives and the mount is divided.

Zechariah 14:4 (KJV) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

I could be wrong and this may refer to this happening on the same day at a different time, but it would still be His second coning in two parts.

Well, I would say that the first is the removal of the church, and the second is the actual second coming, because in the former, He only is in the air, while the latter, he actually descends to earth.

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3 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Well, I would say that the first is the removal of the church, and the second is the actual second coming, because in the former, He only is in the air, while the latter, he actually descends to earth.

That would be my view as well. Would it be considered a second coming if He's not on the earth? The first event we (the church) meet him in the air (A term with we call rapture) and then Israel will be dealt with, and the Second He actually comes to the earth (touches) with hosts. The event where we meet Him in the air the church sees, and the second coming the world sees. 

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Buuuut...at His second coming the trump shall sound and the dead in Christ shall rise first, sorta sounds like part of the second coming to me. But I have been wrong before.   🙄

Not sure why His feet would have to touch the ground.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

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Second Coming 

Two phases: 

1) Rapture of the church - the harvest. 

2) Rapture of Israel/Tribulation saints - the gleanings.

The rapture of Tribulation saints is covered in Isaiah 26:30,31.

This is the passage that is popular with mid-trib rapture of the church teachers for example Marvin Rosenthal but the passage has to do with the nation of Israel not the body of Christ.

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Not sure why His feet would have to touch the ground

Jesus said He would come again. During the rapture, He doesn't come to earth, he meets us in the clouds in the atmosphere. If I was at your house and said I would come again, you would not say that I would have come again if I met you half way. 

The important point is that In 1 Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24 is referring to two different events. I call it the rapture and Second coming, and you call it both two different events of second coming. 

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2 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

Jesus said He would come again. During the rapture, He doesn't come to earth, he meets us in the clouds in the atmosphere. If I was at your house and said I would come again, you would not say that I would have come again if I met you half way. 

The important point is that In 1 Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24 is referring to two different events. I call it the rapture and Second coming, and you call it both two different events of second coming. 

You are right in what I call it BroMatt. that is why I said I view this differently than most. 

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I use the term Rapture (even though the word rapture is not in the Bible, well...neither is the word Bible lol ) because of what the word means. The principle of being carried away and meeting Him in the air is literally what will take place. From my perspective, it's a great way of differencing between the two events that will take place.

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Thanks for the reply BroMatt. I do know that yours is the preferred way to look at it for many.

I still hold with what I said, even though I did not list every reason for holding to it. One main reason that I did not list was the fact that at His coming for us (The Rapture), He is coming from a spiritual realm to an earthly one, which for me, makes the Rapture the first part of what I call a two part second coming.

In any event, I am all for it regardless of what I, or anyone else chooses to call it.  😀

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Jim, I appreciate your thoughts. I love this subject and very fond of hearing peoples views even if they differ from my own.

Brother Jim, does your belief not have the idea that Christ would lead us into heaven? And thus he entering back into this spiritual realm? 

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I doubt any of our theology on this subject are absolutely correct-the Bible says actually quite a bit, but things like timing, and time periods between events, are very vague. I hold to the post-trib/pre-wrath rapture position, and have quite a few reasons for it, but I'm not dogmatic about it, either, because the Bile doesn't really lay out the timing clearly, so I have never considered it a 'fundamental', timing-wise, nor anything to separate over, though I know some who do separate over the timing of the rapture. 

By the way, I don't hold to it due to any Anderson teachings, as I have never heard his teaching on it.   I think the fact that it WILL occur is abundantly clear, and that it is yet future, but as for much more than that, all we can reasonably do is speculate, maybe strongly, but still, I give myself space to be wrong.

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4 hours ago, Hugh_Flower said:

Jim, I appreciate your thoughts. I love this subject and very fond of hearing peoples views even if they differ from my own.

Brother Jim, does your belief not have the idea that Christ would lead us into heaven? And thus he entering back into this spiritual realm? 

Yes, I do have that belief; but coupled with it is the fact that in 1Thess. when He comes for us, He in fact "comes". That, to me, is a part of His "coming".

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