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The Rapture in the Bible


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I use the term Rapture (even though the word rapture is not in the Bible, well...neither is the word Bible lol ) because of what the word means. The principle of being carried away and meeting Him in the air is literally what will take place. From my perspective, it's a great way of differencing between the two events that will take place.

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Thanks for the reply BroMatt. I do know that yours is the preferred way to look at it for many.

I still hold with what I said, even though I did not list every reason for holding to it. One main reason that I did not list was the fact that at His coming for us (The Rapture), He is coming from a spiritual realm to an earthly one, which for me, makes the Rapture the first part of what I call a two part second coming.

In any event, I am all for it regardless of what I, or anyone else chooses to call it.  ?

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I doubt any of our theology on this subject are absolutely correct-the Bible says actually quite a bit, but things like timing, and time periods between events, are very vague. I hold to the post-trib/pre-wrath rapture position, and have quite a few reasons for it, but I'm not dogmatic about it, either, because the Bile doesn't really lay out the timing clearly, so I have never considered it a 'fundamental', timing-wise, nor anything to separate over, though I know some who do separate over the timing of the rapture. 

By the way, I don't hold to it due to any Anderson teachings, as I have never heard his teaching on it.   I think the fact that it WILL occur is abundantly clear, and that it is yet future, but as for much more than that, all we can reasonably do is speculate, maybe strongly, but still, I give myself space to be wrong.

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4 hours ago, Hugh_Flower said:

Jim, I appreciate your thoughts. I love this subject and very fond of hearing peoples views even if they differ from my own.

Brother Jim, does your belief not have the idea that Christ would lead us into heaven? And thus he entering back into this spiritual realm? 

Yes, I do have that belief; but coupled with it is the fact that in 1Thess. when He comes for us, He in fact "comes". That, to me, is a part of His "coming".

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2 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Yes, I do have that belief; but coupled with it is the fact that in 1Thess. when He comes for us, He in fact "comes". That, to me, is a part of His "coming".

I see. Thank you for your response.

In revelation we see John called up in spirit. Revelation chapter 4 Verse 1-2. With this, what do you say? 
Also, isn’t the second coming specific to the idea of him setting up his kingdom? 
In your view, your leave no room for a 7 year tribulation. And that puzzles me, for that is a requirement in the prophecy to Daniel.
 

Edited by Hugh_Flower
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On 4/19/2021 at 8:33 AM, PastorMatt said:

Thank you for your reply. Like I mentioned in the earlier post I care more about what Scripture says than terminology, that's why I was interested in knowing what event you believe 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is talking about.

Brother, are you saying that this passage is about the "Rapture" of the church? I've heard it preached as that, and I've heard it preached as the Second Advent (Coming) of Christ to the earth. I thought that the rapture was supposed to be in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...not loud with the shout and the trump of God. I have studied this subject for years, and I have to say, I know many of both persuasions concerning this passage. I know that in Bible college at Maranatha many of us students who were studying eschatology by ourselves in a study group were ostracized by many, and were literally invaded by some of the college professors to confiscate materials. I had mine taken away and was told if I had any questions about the subject I needed to go to Dr. Cedarholm, Dr. Weeks or to Dr. Hollowood. I was somewhat shaken that a Bible college, a place of learning and study wouldn't want us to study this subject. At that time, many of us were leaning towards a mid-trib/pre-wrath position. I have since become a "whenever it happens it happens" since the Bible says that nobody knows the day or the hour except the Father in heaven. I know that the apostles all believed that the time was near then. Of course, I know that it's closer today than it was then, but I'm still studying the position. Maybe you could open a thread on it and give us a complete doctrinal study on it...just a suggestion. I know you're a busy man. I know what all my doctrinal books from MBBC and Fellowship Baptist College when it was in E. Peoria, IL say. They are all dispensationalist, pre-tribulation positions. But, some of the crossing of the verses into both categories make me question the validity of the position. I'm not saying that I disagree with it, but I am saying that it's a difficult thing to study, and too many positions with Scripture to fit each one! ? Clear as mud, eh? LOL

Blessings.

Bro. T

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On 4/20/2021 at 6:06 PM, Ukulelemike said:

I doubt any of our theology on this subject are absolutely correct-the Bible says actually quite a bit, but things like timing, and time periods between events, are very vague. I hold to the post-trib/pre-wrath rapture position, and have quite a few reasons for it, but I'm not dogmatic about it, either, because the Bile doesn't really lay out the timing clearly, so I have never considered it a 'fundamental', timing-wise, nor anything to separate over, though I know some who do separate over the timing of the rapture. 

By the way, I don't hold to it due to any Anderson teachings, as I have never heard his teaching on it.   I think the fact that it WILL occur is abundantly clear, and that it is yet future, but as for much more than that, all we can reasonably do is speculate, maybe strongly, but still, I give myself space to be wrong.

Much of what you've stated I'm beginning to lean toward. Also something you hinted at was a difference between tribulation (or great tribulation) and God's day of wrath. I do believe there is a scriptural difference in the two and it helps me to understand some of the Bible passages. Like you, I'm willing to be wrong on this and I agree with another comment that we won't know for sure until we're with the Lord in glory. It isn't a separation issue for me. I enjoy learning from and learning with others and being like an Acts 17:11 Berean.

 

Edited by 1Timothy115
Forgot a sentence :-)
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14 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

@Jim_Alaska I'm just curious to why you do not use the term "Rapture" to describe the first part of the second coming of Christ. 

No particular reason BroMatt. We were talking about the Rapture so I guess I just got more focused on speaking to the issue of His "coming" and that He would actually come both times.

I have no problem with calling the event in Thess. a Rapture, even though the Bible doesn't call it that.

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7 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

No particular reason BroMatt. We were talking about the Rapture so I guess I just got more focused on speaking to the issue of His "coming" and that He would actually come both times.

I have no problem with calling the event in Thess. a Rapture, even though the Bible doesn't call it that.

Thank you Brother, I see no error in how you view the event in 1 Thess., as the terminology is more of a preferential difference.  If I'm going to use the the the words Trinity and Bible (They are not called those names in the Word of God), then I see no reason why I should not use the word Rapture.  I appreciate your explanation.

13 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Brother, are you saying that this passage is about the "Rapture" of the church?

I am, I believe that is the clearest answer in Scripture. I'm getting ready to start work now so I really cant explain in detail. Hopefully this weekend. Have a great day. 

Like was already mentioned earlier, we all have preferences on this subject, to me the important aspect is the fact that He IS coming back like He promised. 

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The difficulty on whether there is a pre, mid or post Trib rapture rests on discerning whether the nation of Israel will be restored as a separate group with the OT promises literally fulfilled to them or if they will just become part of the Church as Jews who get saved do now and all the OT promises have been fulfilled in the Church. I'm always leary of the position that we have replaced Israel.

The Tribulation is a period of Jacob's trouble and the emphasis is on their restoration though many Gentiles will get saved. As I stated before Isaiah 26, that those verses, which in context are about the Tribulation and Second Coming, apply to Israel but I'm not immoveable from this position. 

I'm not so sure about these things as I used to because there are a lot of godly, God fearing, bible believing brethren on all sides of the debate which makes me think we all may be a little right and a little wrong in our positions. From my experience that is usually the case.

One thing is for sure is that our Lord will return, until that time we are to occupy for him, spread the gospel, live holy lives, edify the saints, do good to the unsaved, watch for his return, that we will be "raptured" aka caught up to meet him in the clouds when he does return and that "all Israel shall be saved".

 

Edited by SureWord
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59 minutes ago, SureWord said:

 I'm always leary of the position that we have replaced Israel.

Yep, me too! My Jewish blood component came through a grafting in process. 

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" [Titus 2:13]

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On 4/23/2021 at 6:12 AM, SureWord said:

The difficulty on whether there is a pre, mid or post Trib rapture rests on discerning whether the nation of Israel will be restored as a separate group with the OT promises literally fulfilled to them or if they will just become part of the Church as Jews who get saved do now and all the OT promises have been fulfilled in the Church. I'm always leary of the position that we have replaced Israel.

The Tribulation is a period of Jacob's trouble and the emphasis is on their restoration though many Gentiles will get saved. As I stated before Isaiah 26, that those verses, which in context are about the Tribulation and Second Coming, apply to Israel but I'm not immoveable from this position. 

I'm not so sure about these things as I used to because there are a lot of godly, God fearing, bible believing brethren on all sides of the debate which makes me think we all may be a little right and a little wrong in our positions. From my experience that is usually the case.

One thing is for sure is that our Lord will return, until that time we are to occupy for him, spread the gospel, live holy lives, edify the saints, do good to the unsaved, watch for his return, that we will be "raptured" aka caught up to meet him in the clouds when he does return and that "all Israel shall be saved".

 

Well, Zechariah seems to say that Israel, in general, will be saved when they actually witness Christ return at the end of the falling of God's wrath: those Jews who were born again prior to that will be part of the church, these will, it seems, enter into the kingdom of Christ in the flesh. Jesus referred to them as the virgins awaiting the bridegroom, but not as the bride, itself. I admit that it is somewhat confusing to me exactly what position they will hold-I don't believe the church has taken their place, but of course, I also am not sure that the church is actually the bride, as it is the New Jerusalem we see ascending from heaven adorned as a bride for her Husband. 

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On 4/27/2021 at 9:52 AM, Ukulelemike said:

Well, Zechariah seems to say that Israel, in general, will be saved when they actually witness Christ return at the end of the falling of God's wrath: those Jews who were born again prior to that will be part of the church, these will, it seems, enter into the kingdom of Christ in the flesh. Jesus referred to them as the virgins awaiting the bridegroom, but not as the bride, itself. I admit that it is somewhat confusing to me exactly what position they will hold-I don't believe the church has taken their place, but of course, I also am not sure that the church is actually the bride, as it is the New Jerusalem we see ascending from heaven adorned as a bride for her Husband. 

The Church does not take the place of Israel, covenant theology is heresy. Not all Jews will be saved either, only 144,000 during the tribulation 

 

 

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